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 Amazing work about the Milius' movie

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Flaming Turd

Number of posts : 4001
Registration date : 2007-08-28

PostSubject: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:37

I found this article months ago. It was originally written in french, so i'm sorry about the poor translation -I don't speak a word-. It's a rough google translation, so I hoped I could find the original page so the french guys could do something about it... But I am not able to find the web page it came from. Confused

Still, it's really very interesting, and I think after we all have guessed all this time about symbolism and meanings, hopefuly it's pretty understandable.

A modern myth: Conan the barbarian

“The fact that the man by way of spiritualization-sublimation can overcome the terrifying monster (unhealthy operation, morbid deformation) includes the responsibility. The man can and must, by the healthy operation of psyché, maitriser oneself and to control the world. It is the fundamental law of the life. Thus, the heroic combat of the myths concretize the essential adventures of each human life, which are consisted the possiblities of spiritualization-sublimation and perverting. These mythical adventures as a whole are anything else only the psychic life, its demonstrations and its phenomena.”

(Paul Diel - “symbolism in Greek mythology”)

The film “Conan the barbarian” of John Millius devotes the preceding lines. The fitting of the scenes, originally various adventures drawn from the books of Howard - creator of the character Conan hero -, is a true myth in its major function. The logic which unifies this film in the sequence of the mythical images concerning the evolution of the man like subject vis-a-vis his interior or external medium is remarkable.

Conan is a young boy of 8-10 years, high in a village by its people, Cimmériens. Their way of life seems rough: breeding, gathering, kinds of tipis, etc. The film starts with the construction of a sword; it is the father of Conan which forges this sword with its family, in the shade of the tipi, for then tending towards the sky once completed. Then the father of Conan takes it along on a mountain to explain to him the direction of the life of his art: “Fire and the wind come from the sky, of the gods of the sky. But Crôm is our god. Crôm, and it lives in the ground. Formerly giants lived in the ground, Conan. And in darkness of chaos they deceived Crôm. They could thus steal the enigma of steel to him. Crôm was put in anger and the ground trembled. Fire and the wind killed these giants and they threw their bodies in the seas. But in their rage, the gods forgot the secrecy of steel, and left it on the battle field. And it is us who found it. We are only men, not gods, not of the giants, simple men. But the secrecy of steel always carried with him a mystery. You must learn his value Conan, you must learn his laws. Because with nobody, nobody in this world you must proud; neither with the men, neither with the women, nor with the animals. With this you must proud!” (It shows the sword)

This first part definitively plants the mythical plan characteristic of film. The child, it is us, it is this share of our spontaneous personality, amalgamating in the paradise of the quiet force automatically, in osmosis with the external and interior medium. It is this element which Jesus translated by “let come to me the little children because they are closer to the kingdom than you. ”. It is the man before the fall of the paradise, spontaneous animal innocence.

The father of Conan, the banal educational tutor, learns with his son the direction from the good deed. For good to seize it, it is necessary to represent the significance of Zeus to the direction given by Diel. I let the reader explore the richness which it gave to the myth in particular in “symbolism in Greek mythology”. To summarize, Zeus represents the state surconscient in us essentially, rudder of the essential desire seeking the release of the individual by causing in him the process of Integration of Self according to possibilities'. This last intervenes to guide the being human on the way of the life, full with obstacles, in particular with regard to the choices concerning the intimate deliberation vis-a-vis the contrary impulses living us. Zeus is a Master of Olympe, he lives at the top of a high mountain from where he directs the other gods: at the same time main of the Sky (spiritual evolution, intellect, the spirit) and of the Earth (matter, gasoline our being.).

While speaking about Crôm, the father of Conan reduces Zeus to his terrestrial gasoline and then makes the fundamental error of film, ratifying the Prométhéen crime: he learns with his son with proud only with the sword with the detriment from all the remainder. Its teaching is separatist, Manichean: in this world, one should proud only for that.

But what represents the symbol sword exactly?

The father forged steel the sword, a sword of quality higher than the others. One will see following one another three types of different swords of quality during film. This first steel sword, is higher than another type of more vulgar sword.

What is more vulgar than the steel sword?

Any worked combat instrument in a rougher way like the club, the hammer or the sword badly forged with common materials, symbols of bestiality and outburst of the animal impulses. The steel sword represents the sharp function of intellect.

Prométhée Titan concealed fire with Zeus and gave the men. Fire is symbolized here by “the secrecy of steel”, Titan becomes the giant but the symbolic system remains the same one: by using the secrecy of steel (intellect) crossed lucid spirit (Zeus), the men risk the loss.

“Fire cannot be stolen in Zeus (intellect cannot revolt against the spirit), without perverse imagination appearing according to the law inherent in the human nature. If fire is separated from the light, if intellect is not guided by the clear-sighted spirit, it loses its far-sighted clearness, it is plugged and becomes imaginative. Intellect, dealing only with the only tangible properties, is very capable to discover the means of satisfaction adapted to the accidental goals; but, the essential goal, the adaptation to the directing and evolutionary direction of the life being missed, the effort, for clever that it is, is nothing any more but foolish: the precaution as for the means of astute realization is nothing any more but blindness: vain imagination. The man does not know any more - it only thinks - what could be really useful, and all that it will create by his plugged precaution will be turned finally against him, will prove, in the not too distant future, either useful but harmful and dangerous. The standardized culpability, itself, become trouble - sign of the loss of true satisfaction and its joy - will fill the interior vacuum either by agitation without brake, or by the lust and the lucre: intellect plugged, become again imagination exalte.”
(Paul Diel - “symbolism in Greek mythology”)

Thus, in front of the traps which the life will tighten, the father invites the son to use his intellect and anything else to clear up the situations and not with proud with his animal instinctive impulses symbolized by the other men, women or animals in him. It is of course an interpretation on the subjective level (within the meaning of Jung) which it is necessary to give here: we must use intellect to distinguish the forgery of truth in front of the instinctive and emotional outburst which lives us in connection with the external medium.

The sword thus acts as sharp function related to mental thinking (term of Aurobindo that one finds in an interpretation of the swords of the Tarot of Marseilles). Only, this way of adapting to the life, if it makes it possible to overcome the animality in oneself, by mental resistance obstinate and attachment with its fixed representations of the good and the evil, short all the stock of general knowledge consisted our education (and all dualism inherent in this positioning: “is this better for me of going on the right or going on the left?” ), remains a lower process of adaptation to the life which carries a pathogenic germ in the presence of the clear cut with the Spirit and the possibility of a surge of the obscure imaginative forces (1).

We are born in general in a family from rather protective individuals. The latter have in heart to educate us or at least to maintain to us in life. In front of the threat of the company, they protégent us and we grow in relative safety a certain time. In general, they will give free to the child the weapons, this steel sword to distinguish the values of the good and the evil. Each child learns how dice age the six years to use his intellect, being based on his memory and the continuity of sound Me to react vis-a-vis the circumstances of the life and vis-a-vis his own impulses: He has a concept of justice, a strong curiosity, energy and clearness remaining in the parental field. Its concept of responsibility is not forged yet but it can, and his/her parents invite there, to use its mental thinking to manage its relation internal and external. The parents, the father in particular, guide and guarantor of the social order of the world (with the direction symbolic system released by Jung) cannot wake up another thing in the child and in particular the bond surconscient which we will reconsider. They learn how or oblige the young person to use his intelligence to contain its impulses, to forge a control worthy of the diagrams of ideals which it carries in him - or rather than the parents carry in them and integrate in the child -, to have the best possible social status to shine in the Matrix, but to in no case one does not speak about the natural legality of the bond with the life.


Arrive then a band of warriors in the village who devastate all; perched on black horses, holding up a standard where two snakes face on the black moon, accompanied by dogs of war, they burn the village, kill the father of Conan (in the back whereas it fights with his steel sword, the dogs complete it). They have weapons obviously of low quality (hammers out of wooden, spades.). The chief of malicious, Thulsa Doom, are made give the steel sword collected by his henchmen, go down from horse and decapitate the mother of Conan, holding the hand of his son, subjugated and paralysed by the eyes of the chief. He throws a approving glance on the steel weapon.

All the science of the father was not useful: in the combat with its sword, it is strong of face but it is touched in the back and is devoured by the dogs. The lesson is terrible and relentless: intellect is insufficient. This fabulous weapon that is the steel sword in fact a frightening combatant but it did not know all to see and treachery (blow in the back) follow-up of the bestial outburst destroyed it.

It is a clear warning.

Whoever would like to be based on intellect to give a direction to its life and to leave itself there would see itself destroyed psychiquement or physically! One cannot all control and the interior hordes (in forms instinctual, emotive, emotional or instinctive) or external (in the form of real danger) cannot be avoided thanks to intellect or to the thought. Worse! This weapon which is intellect put in the hands of malicious (and one sees the interest of Thulsa Doom for the sword, symbol of its increased capacity) will prove even more destructive. One thinks from a sociological point of view that at the twentieth century, the greatest symphony orchestrated by the Horror took place with intellect like first violin (IBM organization in the gas chambers, bends nuclear, etc. as many products resulting from the mental brilliance thinking human being).

The same applies in the management of our lives where we seek with all to calculate: “if I do that, I would earn more money, if I say that to him, it or it more will appreciate me and I could be loved or to allure it etc.” This myth shows us that intellect is a tool, but a neutral tool not-dependent on the value-guides of the individual, serving as well the abjection as holiness. Thus, the pathogenic germ developed: the crack due to the training of intellect in its purely utility function let return the wolf in the sheep-fold. The predator takes control.

But let us return on the enemy able to destroy our value-guides at this point there: because here is the direction of the beginning of film. All the naturalness released by the peace of the village is swept by Thulsa doom. In other words, from a mythical point of view applied to individual psychic energy, a powerful enemy is able all to demolish and impose his yoke and his authority within the meaning of our life.

Who is it? And how does it appear?
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:38

It is of course the predator, vanity darkening all. Symbolized by the snakes on the black moon, it takes again all the direction that Diel allotted to Méduse in Greek mythology. It would take well too a long time to take again in detail the characteristics of this ancestral enemy, the more so as it largely was already made of it mention in chapter II.

Let us point out nevertheless its principal features: Thulsa Doom is the obscure side of the Force, the emperor. “More tempting, faster is the obscure side of the Force” as would say Yoda. This seduction and this speed rest on the imaginative exaltation, true psychic leprosy corroding the man, making him imaginativement cross and represent the life not-lived until it stagnates in a putrid pond forged by his representations of the world with what it can make and not make, far from any spontaneousness (It is problems of more than of extraverti standardized introvert). Imagination is increasingly faster than the action in rem which, it, is likely to make change to be in-depth for it. Blow, the human being, forming a unit with this nonsense of its life, this vacuum, this vanity, in prey with the energy petrification is trapped between its great intense imaginative flights projected on such thing or such person, fascinated by the pleasure felt in these moments, only crumbs which the geôlier distributes to his dogs to maintain them under his control and in parallel destroyed by the real stagnation and the nonsense of his existence of which the too great culpability makes the sight monstrous and unbearable. Fascination and repulsion are thus the Masters words of the obscure capacity of Thulsa Doom, the oppressor.

“Medusa must symbolize the perversion of the spiritual impulse: conceited stagnation. This significance is particularly underlined by a feature symbolic system which lends to Méduse a made hair snakes. [.] Of an alarming hideousness, Medusa, according to another version, is magiquement tempting. It is the vanity which is tempting, and the culpability which is alarming”. (Paul Diel - “symbolism in Greek mythology”).

But for the moment, at the beginning of its violent takeover on the universe of Conan, Thulsa Doom appears in its powerful form and fascinatrice. The form médusienne will come only afterwards. Indeed, the vanity and the direction of Ego individual colonize us very early and propels us out of the paradise of quiet knowledge after a fascinating takeover by force and one becomes his slave. This is why the mother of Conan lets herself kill without fighting, subjugated by the enemy, just as Conan itself, without reaction in front of the act.


Conan is taken along with the other children, in slavery to make turn a wheel in the desert which crushes one does not know what and passes its childhood and its adolescence thus, pushing the wheel (“the wheel of bread”) until there remains the only survivor and which he reached a body of adult.

The predator connects us with an operating mode which we almost never leave during our life, using our spontaneous energy (symbolized by the children) to make us turn in a painful vacuum where our existence has of another direction only to make and remake the same errors resulting from our projections and where we spend our energy for the account of an other. Such is the direction of the Matrix, the direction of our lives as long as the awakenings necessary did not take place. It is the life of 99% of our contemporaries for which very left their prison is impossible: their tangible properties, the debilitating or oppressive connections emotional, the ideas that they are made their acts, of what they can make or not make, completely independently of what would be good for them at the bottom are their wheel. Generally, one dies in the service of the Matrix (cf the examples quoted in chapter II) and death mows us without no other carrying from exit was not found during the existence. This wheel is also a wheel of the banality, stupidity, resignation and mediocrity.

What means this wheel? It represents intellectual side the “technique” in which one finds oneself plunged in the life, to permanently grind grain by interior dialogues of mental type extremely repetitive: ” what do I eat this evening? I télédéclare my taxes or sends them by mail? , “Which film one will see with the cinema?”. This prevalence of the “reason of Ego” in “pseudo-reflexive” form is seen by certain psychologists like a hypertrophy of the left brain [center of the language, reason, dependent on the mental of the things in the form of objects, binary, dualistic representation] being carried out with the detriment of the right brain [connected “to the whole”, creative, intuitive, “globalisant”, been dependent on the divinity in Oneself].

“But when did we pass from the temporal lobe right to the left temporal lobe? One of the best historical analyses on this question was done by a psychologist of Princeton University, Dr. Julian Jayne who worked on the physiology of the conscience. It put forth the assumption that the first human ones did not have a feeling of individual conscience [cf: connection to” the quiet force “at Castaneda]. They were so related the ones on the others, and the universe, which they perceived like a conscience shared not only between them but also with any thing contained in the Universe. Dr. Jayne defines the conscience as it” me “that each one among us regards as an obviousness. The Vikings stuck to this initial concept of” shared community “and” thought of group “. But each individual had a particular gift which it used to contribute to the company. Often he were known by their profession or activity like the blacksmith, the baker, the king, the warrior, the serf, etc. However each person was firmly attached to a structured company and included/understood perfectly her relation and her role within this one (2).

The individual conscience was set up following a dysfonction of the human brain. The modern man, despite everything his achievements, has an unbalanced brain. Dr. Jayne proved that the origins of the human conscience come from an imbalance of the lobes left and right, which explains the title of its book “The origins of consciousness in the breakdown of the Bicameral mind”. The human ones had a bicameral spirit (says itself of a political régime at two representative assemblies) during 195.000 years. We have suffered from the lack of exchange of information between the lobes left and right of the brain for 5000 years, letting it left dominate in an abnormal way and the right to atrophy itself. (“the divine connection” of Melvin Morse p 192)

Let us enter on one level the myth of the predator such as it is worked out by Castaneda and which corresponds in its properties to certain concepts that one tries to release here.
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:38

The myth of the Predator (or “Volador”, “Planeador”) at C. Castaneda

“The sixth (center of energy), located at the top of the head, had something of very abnormal, not to say more, in description that gift Juan gave some, which besides wanted nothing to have to make with this center. It said it animated, not by a swirl of energy, like the others, but by a pendular motion, of before behind, which pointed out a little the beat of a heart.

“Why the energy of this center is so different, gift Juan? he I asked.

- This sixth center of energy does not belong completely to the man, says it. You, we see other human, we are as who would say besieged. This center was taken by storm by an invader, an invisible predator. And the only means which we have to overcome it, it is to strengthen all the other centers.

( Illustration Z. Beksinski )

- Aren't this a little paranoiac, to smell itself thus besieged, gift Juan? I suggested.

- Eh well, for you, perhaps, but certainly not for me, retorted it. I see energy, and I see that this energy, above the top of the head, does not circulate like that of the other centers. It has this oscillation of before behind, absolutely feeling reluctant, and absolutely foreign. I also see that, at a wizard who succeeded in overcoming the thought (id is succeeded in finding the spontaneousness of action released of conceited perverting too full with a dialogue of automatic thoughts) this foreign installation, as call it the shamans, the fluctuation of energy in this center became exactly similar with that of all the others. “(” magic Master keys “- Carlos Castaneda)

[Armando Torres meets Carlos Castaneda and writes their exchanges]

“The man, says it, is a magic being, it with the capacity to fly in the universe pareillement to million other consciences which exist there. But at a given time of its history, it lost its freedom. Maintaining its spirit his is not any more it, but an establishment.”

It affirmed that the human beings are hostages of a group of cosmic entities which are dedicated to the predation, and which the wizards call “the flyers”.
When I in have opportunity, I asked him of me to say some more in connection with the “flyers”, and it told me one of the aspects more terrifying world of Gift Juan: We are prisoners of beings come from the borders of the universe, which uses us as we use chickens.

It explained:

“The portion of the universe which is accessible for us is the field opérationel of two radically different forms of conscience. That which includes the human plants, animals, and also beings, is a conscience blanchâtre, young person and generator of energy. The other is a conscience infinitely older and parasitic, having an enormous quantity of knowledge.
“In addition to the men and other beings which live this Ground, there is in the universe an immense range of inorganic entities. They are present among us and at certain times, are visible. We call them phantoms or appearances.
“One of these species, that the indicators describe like enormous flying silhouettes of black color, arrived one day depth of cosmos and met an oasis of conscience on our planet. They specialized “to milk” the human beings.
“It is incredible! ” I exclaimed.
“I know, but it is purest and more terrifying truth! Did you never question yourself on the tops and low emotional energy of people? It is the predator which periodically comes to take its quota of conscience. They leave us just what one needs so that we can continue to live, and sometimes even not that.”
“That do you want to say? ”
“Sometimes they take too much and the person falls seriously sick, and can even die about it. ”
I did not manage to believe what I heard.
“Please think by there that we are devoured alive? ”
It smiles.
“Good, they “do not eat us” not literally, which they do it is a vibratory transfer. The conscience is energy and they can be aligned with us. Since by nature, they are perpetually famished and that us, on the other hand, let us exude light, the result of this alignment can be described like an energy predation. ”

“But, why do they do that? ”
“Because on the cosmic level, energy is the strongest currency, we all seek it, and the human ones are a vital race, rich in food. Each alive thing eats some another and it is always most powerful which gains. Who said that the man was at the top of the food chain? This vision can come only from one human being. For the inorganic beings, we are preys.
I commented on that it was inconceivable for me that entities even more conscious than, reach us to such a degree of predation.
It retorted:
“But what do you believe that you make when you eat a lettuce or a beefsteak? You eat life! Your sensitivity is hypocritical. The predatory cosmic ones are neither more nor less cruel than us. When a stronger race consumes some another, lower, it helps so that its energy evolves/moves.
“I already said you that in the universe there was only the war. Confrontations between human are only one reflection what there does without outside. It is normal that a species tries to consume another of them. A warrior does not deplore on this subject, it tries to survive.
“And how do they consume us? ”
“Through our emotions, caused without delay by our interior dialogue. They drew the social environment in such way that we are permanently projecting waves of emotions which are immediately absorbed. What they like over all, they are the attacks of the ego; for them it is an exquisite mouthful. Such emotions are identical in any place of the universe where they are present and they learned how to metabolize them.
“Some consume us for our lust, our fear or our anger; others prefer the more delicate feelings, like the love and tenderness. But all are consequently interested thing. Their way of normal attack is the warhead, the heart or the belly, where we store most of our energy. ”
“Do they also attack the animals? ”
“These beings use all that is available, but they prefer the organized conscience. They drain the animals and the plants in the part of their attention which is not fixed too much. They tackle also the majority of the inorganic beings, except that those see them and dodge them, as we make with the mosquitos. The only ones which falls completely into their trap are the being human. ”

“How is it possible that all that occurs without we realizing there? ”
“Because we inherit this exchange with these beings as if it were about a genetic condition, and that seems us natural. When somebody is born, the mother the offer in food without very realizing it, because its spirit is him also controlled. To baptize the child, it is like signing a contract. As of this moment, the mother endeavours to inculcate acceptable modes of control to him; she tames it, reduces her warlike side and converts it into a flexible ewe.

“Hush now baby, baby, don' T you cry
Mama' S gonna make all your nightmares come true
Mama' S gonna could all her fears into you
Mama' S gonna keep you right young stag under her wing
She won' T let you fly, goal she might let you sing
Mama' S gonna keep baby cozy and warm
Ooooh babe, ooooh babe, oooooh babe
Of race mama' S gonna help build the wall (“Mother” - Pink Floyd - “The Wall”)

“When a child has sufficient energy to reject this imposition, but not enough to enter on the way of the warrior, he becomes a rebel or a delinquent.

“The advantage of the flyers comes from the difference between our levels of conscience. They are very vast and powerful entities; the idea that we have them is equivalent to that which an ant can have of a human being. ”

“However their presence is painful and it can measure various manners. For example, when we face attacks of rationality or mistrust, or when we are tempted to violate our own decisions. The insane ones can detect them very easily, too easily would say I, because they smell physically how these beings are posed on their shoulders, generating paranoias. The suicide is the seal of the flyers, because their spirit is potentially homicide. ”

“You that it was about an exchange, but, that do we gain of such a plundering said? ”

“In exchange of our energy, the flyers gave us our mental, our attachments and our ego. For them, we are not slaves but a species of paid workmen. They granted these privileges to a primitive race and gave him the faculty to think, which made us evolve/move, makes some they civilized us. Without that, we would be still hidden in caves or making nests at the top of the trees.

“The flyers control us through our traditions and of our habits. They are the Masters of the religion, the creators of the history. We listen to their voice with the radio and we read their ideas in the newspapers. They direct all our means of information and our systems of belief. Their strategy is splendid. For example, there was one day an honest man who spoke about love and freedom; they transformed it into car-compassion and servility. They do it with everyone, even with the naguals. For this reason the work of a wizard is solitary.

“During millenia, the flyers concocté plans to collectivize us. It one time ago when they were so shameless that they were even seen in public, and people made representations of stone of them. These times were obscure, they pullulated everywhere. But maintaining their strategy became so subtle that we do not know even any more that they exist.

“In the past, they held us by our credulity; today they reach that point by the materialism. They are responsible for the ambition of the modern man not to think more by itself; observe a person just how long will be able to tolerate silence!”

“Why did they change their strategy? ”

“Because in this moment, they are running a great risk. Humanity is in contact constantly and quickly, and information can reach everyone. Or they fill us the head and bombard us day and night of all types of suggestions, or some will start to realize what occurs and will inform the others. ”

“That would it occur if we managed to push back these entities? ”

“We would recover in one week all our vitality and we would be again brilliant! But, as a being human ordinary, we cannot consider this possibility because it would imply that we went against all that is socially acceptable. Extremely fortunately, the wizards have a frightening weapon: The discipline.

“The meeting with the inorganic beings is gradual. At the beginning we do not notice them. But an apprentice starts to see them in his dreams, then with the thing, waking state which
can make it insane if it does not learn how to live like a warrior. Once it included/understood, it can face them.

To lose the Mental one

During an other conversation, Carlos explained that the reason is a by-product of the foreign spirit and that us should not trust him. For a person with my mental constitution, it was very difficult to accept.

When I questioned it on this point, it explained me why what the wizards reject is not the capacity to reason to arrive to conclusions, but the way whose reason is imposed in our life, as if it were the single alternative.

“Rationality makes us feel like a solid block, and we start to attach the greattest importance to concepts like “reality”. When we face unusual situations, as those which attack the wizards, we say ourselves: “It is not reasonable!” And it seems there that we said all that there was to say.

“The world of our mental is dictatorial, but fragile. After a few years of a continuous use, it oneself becomes so heavy that that becomes a commonplace to rest to be able to continue.
“A warrior fights to break the description of the world which A was injected in him, in order to open a space for new things. Its war is delivered against Ego. To this end, it tries to be permanently conscious of its potential. Since the contents of perception depend on the position of the point of assembly, a warrior seeks of all his forces to shake the fixing of this point. Instead of delivering a worship to its speculations, it pays attention to certain premises of the way of the wizards.

“These premises declare that firstly, only a high energy level can makes it possible us to treat adequately with the world. Secondly, that rationality is a consequence of the fixing of the point of assembly in the position of the reason, and that this point moves when we arrive at interior silence. Thirdly, that there is in our luminous field of other points as pragmatic as rationality. Fourthly, when we succeed in arriving to a vision which includes the reason with its twin center - quiet knowledge - the concepts of truth and of lie cease being operational and it becomes clear that the true dilemma of the man is to have energy or not to have some. ” (Armando Torres - “Conversations with Nagual”)

Let us return to film: Conan survives the wheel, Conan becomes strong: it develops its body and its muscles by resistance and obstinacy, symbolically, they are the forces essential to be. His/her other companions died. What means this death? It is not a real death of course: Connected Conan represents the capacity of individuation of our sharp forces, the “recall of the freedom” which undergoes a very hard attack during social education. The goal of the “Flyer” is of course to destroy to be it so much so that it does not have any memory of what it could really have become or of the force that it could have placed at the disposal of its free action in the life. More exactly, it preserves this flame only trapped in the gossamer-like networks of the imaginative exaltation: such is the génèse “gleams dead”. Thus is necessary it to hear the death of the companions like the abandonment of their heart and their force with Typhon, coming to enlarge the population of the “empty hulls” [Primarily, the “causal body” was withdrawn], of thealive ones. It is the wheel of the meaningless, of vulgarizing.
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:39

" The voladores are constituent fundamental of the universe and we must endeavour to see them under their true day - terrifying, monstrous. It is by their intermediary that the universe puts to us with the test. [.] The voladores constitute for us a challenge from which we cannot withdraw ourselves. We do not owe the mésestimer. We must overcome them so that the universe lets the human beings continue their existence. “
(Carlos Castaneda - “the final voyage”)

The constraint necessary of the teenager to the normative educational rules (this crisis of smothering evoked in chapter II) is thus done violently, but by keeping alive this flame, Conan represents the constitution of a spirit solid, resistant, individual and strong.

Then, one day, one of the Masters comes to seek Conan to make it take part in combat of gladiators in a pit. “It is with the combat that Conan learned its direction from the values”.

It becomes unbeatable and is sent to continue its training in the Masters of the war where it “is coupled with best reproductive” and where it learns the reading, the writing and poetry.

Why Conan didn't he die on the wheel? An exceptional intention, the chance?

Always it is that the system of which there remains the slave will use it for more difficult and more dangerous tasks. It begins a training on many plans. In other words, it is through the matric social system that it climbs the levels: it learns the rules and the techniques from Tonal while yielding with all but while resisting all primarily. The Masters cannot any more what make this element only which was not used any more for nothing on the wheel, which would have to die in the first combat, which did not have any value but which finally acquires power by its simple capacity of pressure resistance matric. While not mourrant on the wheel, it seems not to be given up with vulgarizing, never not throwing sponge, waiting only its hour. its resistance takes place in a form of refusal of abandonment to dissolution in the common way of life which is offered to him, an interior flame, maintains it out of this danger.

How to interpret that on the subjective level?

One never should release its source, its major identity, its intention. One can become the slave with the most perfect direction (that of Hegel in its dialectical of the Master and the slave) and find his release in fine. If the enemy is initially inside, it is especially by the social system and the conceited standpoint started again by each one that it establishes his fabric and oppresses us. To give up itself with its fabric, it is to sink in the banality, eaten by pendular motion tic-TAC-tic-TAC of the schedules, fires, the social obligation and of the holidays, dissolved by the numbing wellbeing of a bath of small pleasures of food, practice, of the policy, forgetting the magic of what one is, it is to die on the wheel.

When I has child I caught has fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look drank it was gone
I cannot could my finger one it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
I cuts become comfortably numb. “(3)
(Pink Floyd - “Comfortably Numb” [“Agreeably engourdi”] in “the Wall”)

Let us resist dissolution simply and the Matrix opens to use us with more responsibilities, of being able or action, and it is also a training. To incorporate the rules of social operation, the codes in force in the company is a need to go further. They are the weapons of our right movement in the Tonal one, knowledge which one can face in any circumstance in the usual living conditions of the “world”. It is also necessary to keep imaginative exaltation which results from a desire for being propelled in Nagual but which rests on Tonal still too weak. Freedom is first of all interior, in a flexibility vis-a-vis our own emotional and mental projections. The training of the rules is factor of freedom, the refusal of the rules is factor of enfermement (“brambles”) and of consequent smothering, fear and projection. To start by learning the basic rules from the operation of our world, there to be at ease, to use them in a A-projective way (“tonaliser” its environment until phase IV with the direction given chapter I) is pre-necessary before considering another thing.

“It is already hard to rise the morning, then to fly…”

(Lydie Marsan - Ixtlan company - “initiatory and burlesque Voyage according to the writings of Carlos Castaneda”)

One evening, the Master of Conan, drunk, comes to break its chain, and removes to him the mark of its condition of slave, a crown around the face. It says to him that it is free and orders to him to leave. Conan runs in the night, with half naked, a ring with ankle with its chain in the hands, continued by wolves; the day is dawning, it goes up on Tumulus and fall into a cave which protects it from the wolves awaiting it outside.

It is the social system, our beautiful civilized environment, the glowing cars and the delicate clothes which make us think that the animal in us is far! Nothing is false any more! Conan learned philosophy and poetry, the combat, glory, success and “were coupled with most beautiful reproductive” in the social system such as it is described. But it had access to all that as a slave of the Matrix and as soon as detached from the latter, it was found, current, naked continued by wolves, become again on the level low, animal itself.

Thus let us be us, of the animals disguised as men not wishing at all freedom but wishing to enjoy the privileges given by the system rather than to free itself some, of fear of the frightening pit of the wild wind of the “true” freedom. In any event, most of the time, the existence even of this interior freedom only is not hardly perceived, choked in the highly-strung persons, dislocated at standardized. The total gift with the Matrix is alarming: we are on a gigantic metal structure with hundred meters of the ground, developing us from there, by the education and the practices of the social system, incompetents of reconnecter at the base of what we are at the bottom.

"Got a bag with a toothbrush and a comb in
When I'm a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone in
I got elastic bands keeping my shoes on
[..] Got thirteen channels of shit on the TV to choose from
I've got electric light[..]
And I've got a strong urge to fly but I got nowhere to fly to[..]I've got a pair of Gohills boots
But I got fading roots."
( Pink Floyd - "Nobody home" in "the Wall" )

Protected in this architecture, we are born and follow the furrows that one indicates to us without sourciller. Formerly, the function of the primitive initiatory rites allowed the establishment of a deep individual agreement between oneself and the environment but since the disappearance of these processes, we are quasi definitively cut, unless finding the “door narrow”.

Blow, the “share real” in us is still with the embryonic stage of brutality and the share of the social mask highly developed in a ballet of surface pseudo-intelligence. It is this “real share” which appears in Conan when it is released.

To give an example, imagine one moment your life if you did not have really anything, but nothing to make of what the others can say, think or feel your acts; in short, if very of a blow one said to you that the external world is like an electronic play or a dream in which you can really do what you want. You plunge one moment from this point of view and imagine. It is clear that the wild desires of slaughter, rape or other atrocities would make irruption immediately. If you think that not, I you do not believe, because our history is truffée moments when the unconscious collective and its driven back desires made irruption in reality and showed the abjection hidden behind our beautiful social masks. And people who lived them were absolutely not different from us.

In short, Conan begins its first moments of freedom, in the night like a wild beast, trying out its “real share” with its body at 100% to progress in the unknown.


In the tumulus, Conan starts to make fire and is in fact in a species of tomb of giants. One of the skeletons to the hand on a sword: Conan seizes it and there sees a sign of Crôm, its God. The sword is forged in a metal still definitely higher than the sword of his/her father, it is called sword of the Telamones in film. The day is dawning, it leaves the tumulus, breaks what remains to him of chain with its sword, keep silent the wolves and is made coats with their fur.

This passage is fundamental and marks the irruption of surconscient, of the Spirit in the life of Conan. The tumulus, the cave, is the return to the subsoil of oneself. In this darkness where it makes light with its small fire, significant of plunging intellect in the unconscious one in order to learn how to know, it discovers the divine sword. It is symbolically that which one finds by carrying out the process of individuation, of return on oneself, while learning how to know, by finding the treasure hidden at the bottom of its interior cave. This treasure was inevitably maintained locked up by the too strong matric bonds and opens thanks to the will of freedom.

This sword is quite higher than that of his/her father because it does not symbolize any more intellect, external tool accessible to all pulsated but the sharp function of surconscient, the spirit-guide interior, only able to harmonize the values and to offer to the individual a sure compass enabling him to invest its choices of actions in a way definitely higher than intellectual choices. It has from now on the weapon of the crowned inspiration. It is by it that will take place the metamorphosis, the rise and the evolutionary transformation necessary. It is a veil, a breath, a direction, a direction, around of which to be it can change; it is also the transcendent function of Jung.

"I called this modification which results from the confrontation of the individual with his unconscious transcendent function. This curious faculty of metamorphosis of which made proof the human heart, and who expresses himself precisely in the transcendent function, is the essential object of the alchemical philosophy of the Average Age. [.] Because of its participaion activates, the subject mixes with the unconscious processes and he becomes holder about it while letting himself penetrate and seize by them. Thus, it connects in him the conscious plans and the unconscious plans. The result is an upward movement in the flame, the metamorphosis in alchemical heat and the birth of “the subtle spirit”. Such is the transcendent function which is born from the conjunction of the opposite factezurs.
(C-G Jung - “Dialectical of Ego and Unconscious”)

Dice at the time, it definitively destroys the remainders of its matric sequence - sure of the legality of its choices from now on - and by avoiding fur of the wolves already its first evolution shows: an exit of the animality, an action showing that it dominates from now on its bestial instincts which will be with the service of the ideal surconscient. To return to the comparison of the desires driven back at each one, that translated that whoever found this compass interior is from now on ready to evolve/move in the company while being “oneself”, without any repression, having overcome its instincts in a harmonious way; i.e. the wild instincts are integrated in the way of life of the individual without dissociating irruption.

Let us take again the advance of the hero and proceed to the analogy with the development conscienciel of each one. We are born and grow in the protective medium of the parents providing of the imperfect values of survival but in which our spontaneousness of childhood and our confidence in the life are large. From which moment the predator does make us it fall? very early it seems. Always it is that its presence appears by this dislocation of the forces and energies “out of oneself”, placing the action within a complex network of idéo-emotional representations where the fight for the profit, the capacity or the possession of the desired beings is strong. Two broad outline of behavior takes shape in this way towards the loss: vulgarizing with its massive imaginative investment towards the objects of desire and the nervousness with its convulsion in the pseudo-ideals.
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:39

Vulgarizing in its most widespread form is the lack of any rise, the constant fall and, consequently, lowness. Contrary to nervous overpressure, it is a psychic state of undervoltage. The feature which it in common has with the nervousness is the cause of any psychic deformation: the imaginative exaltation of the desires. The state in question is not any more, the such weak-willed insufficiency of the highly-strung person, a perversion (which remains reduced have imaginative play). Vulgarizing is, of exaltée imagination, the active explosion. It is perversity (in its forms not only sexual but so social).
(Paul Diel - “symbolism in Greek mythology”)

One could say that standardized subjects itself to the wheel of pain and the social system while spreading itself inside with all its heart as if this system were the gasoline of the real world: while accepting and by amalgamating its interior values with those of Mâya (veil of the social illusion of the Hindus), standardized closes themselves and subjects themselves perversely to the system material, tedious and closed Matrix (cf “vulgarizing” in chapter II). The highly-strung person, “feels to him swindles it” and forges a social mask behind which its “real share” survives small fire, certainly infantile, embryonic but present. It fears more than all to lose it while being standardized and solidifies between what it can do and not to make, accept or not to accept; he is in permanent dissociation between his mask and the desires driven back in background, exaltés imaginativement. He is locked up in routines of representation of the world and petrifies himself all alone where standardized loses itself irremediably. Of this enfermement spouts out cynicism, the impression to have included/understood or to be to the bottom more malignant or more intelligent than the others, cultivating this “single” share of oneself and trying to protect it from banal dissolution, the highly-strung person does not realize that it perennializes “the bramble” system which locks up it and it ends up being lost there (4).

Thus, it is necessary to offer an exit point of the hen house, “to seize its cubic centimeter of chance” and in the real life, a depression can be adapted to carry out a return on oneself saving, to liquidate the values of the Matrix acting in its for interior, to cause a revelation and to find its sword. Dice at the time begins a new life or vision of the life. The centre of gravity moved towards a state of” I AM “but this time with the entirety of its system body-spirit-energy. It is the first rebirth with oneself, the first initiatory stone, the act to be turned over in the cave of Plato (5).

Dice at the time begins the true voyage of transformation, of knowledge to oneself, increase in its capacity on oneself and within Nagual.

Conan meets various people: a witch invites it in her house and makes him a prophecy concerning “a man of a very great force which will crush the snakes of the Earth”. It makes love with and, it metamorphoses in a démoniaque way, Conan takes fear and throws the witch in fire where it is transformed into ball of blue fire and disappears in the night.

There we have a first “fatal” meeting with the direction first of the term (destiny: who relates to the destiny of the individual). The being starts to meet the shares of its personality which were occulted by the constraint in Persona and the social mould. In the unconscious one, after having initially overcome its animality, the subject is confronted with the other alive archetypic shares in him which it will have to integrate: allies of being able first of all distinct then unified in him in the long term. The first meeting - and not the least - is that of obscure femininity, the black side of Anima Jungienne: the side devouring of the mother, the connection of the woman to the moon, sorcery, the roots of Yin, with the universal operation of Nagual, intuition and irrationality seen like dangerous, obscure, unverifiable factors in oneself.

This obscure pole characterized by the prototype of the witch is in connection with clairvoyance, the magic and the crude energy. It “knows” the destiny of the individual, but Conan “fails” at the time of this first contact: it is afraid, him, the force yang par excellence. It is disarmed vis-a-vis that; it tries to dispatch what seems to him monstrous in fire to destroy it (fire, symbol of intellect is a desperate attempt to purify this pole to integrate it in a logical, luminous system - one thinks of undoubtedly roughing-hew of the witches, resulting from the same will -) but the failure is total: the witch laughs and flees in the form of pure energy, terrifying Conan!

It is known at this time that it will have to find this pole and to integrate it some way that it is in spite of this first unfruitful meeting; it will be of course by delivering the princess captive of Thulsa doom. Once the individual freed partly from the matric system, the fear of the unknown which takes shape in front of him is symbolized in this way and it is necessary absolutely that it manages to dominate then to eliminate the fear reducing his capacities of evolution. For Castaneda, the fear is the first enemy of the warrior, this visceral fear of the unknown, Nagual which it will have to be regulated costs that costs under penalty of appalling stagnation.


While leaving the house of the witch, it meets Subotaï, a robber connected with the rocks, waiting to be devoured by the wolves. This last, excel archer was condemned here: Conan delivers it and Subotaï becomes his/her faithful fellow traveller.

Here is a second interior character archetypic: it is about a robber archer which one learns that he requests the gods of the wind where Conan requests alive Crôm in top of a high mountain.

In Greek mythology, the god of the robbers is Hermès, messenger of the gods, rapid, flying on the air. He is Mercure having given his name to the type morphopsychologic characterized by his ease in the mental one, his speed of discussion and comprehension, his lightness and his connection with the element air. Diel thinks that the side of Hermès dedicated to the robbers is the negative side of the god, but I think on the contrary conversely in term of release of the individual:

Why Subotaï is it connected?

Quite simply because the Matrix, the social order condemned it. We know all this judgment, and its name is SUPER-EGO. This grounding which finally took root in us and connected our interior small drainage canal: it is enough to put at the challenge an adult “inserted well in the company” to steal a bar of chocolate in a supermarket to realize that its fingers ooze, which its organic disorder is total! that it is weakened, dissociated, paralysed in its action with the impression that everyone notes its larceny, paralysed by the public fear of the opprobrium which will result from it. However, that would be Conan without this new force? It must be able to transgress the laws if it is needed and the addition of Subotaï means simply that it recovers the legality of the capacity to violate the human payments if it is necessary to the achievement of its Dharma (see Aurobindo locked up with the prison of Alipore. ). In the same way for each one among us with the reconquest his total being, it is necessary to recover the energy of capacity of violation of the social laws. One already saw this recovery in another form when Martin Gray rocks on the side of the pure action, that Castaneda evokes the need for the place without pity. To circulate freely on others less thick wire around the hen house while following its surconscient, one should not be blocked by problems of conscience resulting from the matric rules.

This coldness was highlighted by Jünger, in the interview which it granted in 1995 and was published in “the next Titans”; “the anarque one lives in the interstices of the company, the reality which surrounds it him is indifferent. What is advised, be the coldness: on a cold marsh, one advances more surely and more quickly”. This “passage to the line” is also known “obscure sciences”; Castaneda names it “place without pity”, base camp essential to any supra-human operation.
(Anonymous Author - “prohibited philosophy”)

By the air, element of the robber, we are returned to the capacity “to pass everywhere”, to circulate on any wire, invisible striking with arrows leaving nowhere. A competence related to the smoothness, discretion, camouflage. Here is the direction of the action right, being able of all but acting with smoothness, far from the projectors.


Then the two companions walk on together, of cities in cities, discovering the life and its pleasures (drug, strange foods.). They question people on the symbol of the two snakes on the black moon, Conan wishing to appease its revenge on Thulsa doom. They end up finding a tower with the snakes, symbol of the harmful spiritual power of Thulsa doom and its sect on the territory and decides to penetrate there. They then meet a third key character, Valeria, a fair warlike woman who attacked it also the tower. They do not even have a cord to climb the tower, it makes fun of them and they are combined all the three. Inside, they note a ceremony of sacrifice: the black priest and his disciples downwards sacrifice a young virgin to a monstrous snake. Valeria kills a disciple and disguises himself in the crowd of faithful while Conan and Subotaï explore the bottom and try to seize a splendid red invaluable stone around which the snake is coiled. The snake awakes when Conan, trying to seize the stone has a bead of sweat which falls on the eye of the snake but thanks to the fast intervention of Subotaï, they manage to kill it, not without evil. The sacrifice failed and they flee of the tower with the stone.

The free individual with his capacity of transgression can rediscover the matric life in another form: he extends his capacity of possession and control of the world starting from his center-source; each new experiment really enriches it and it advances at 100% in this new optics where he is not any more slave of the determinisms of the preceding Masters. The third character archetypic met is fundamental: this warlike blonde is not other than the notation symbolic of Athéna in us.

Indeed, Athéna is goddess of the war but also of wisdom, protective of the cities. It is characterized by its combativeness and the acuity of its intelligence. “It is the armed girl who defends the heights, in all the directions of the term, physics and spiritual, where it was established. Psychic creation, the synthesis by reflexion. warlike or peaceful but always intelligent and reflected socialized intelligence, without mysteries nor mysticism. symbol of combative spiritualization” (Dictionary of the symbols).

Thus Conan recovers this allied weight in its search, side of its personality which it had not integrated yet, a kind of capacity to work out judicious action plans. Throughout film, it will révèlera its trick and its intellectual smoothness to manage to carry out the actions. All that is symbolized by the cord which it brings to the two accomplices in order to help them to climb in the tower.

To them three, they manage to kill the snake and to steal “the eye of the snake”, a splendid ruby. All the symbolism of this scene is charged. Indeed, the myth to go to steal the eye or egg of snake exists and can have much significances. We will retain that which follows our starting line concerning the energies revealed inside us, to release or make evolve/move: the giant snake is an image of Thulsa doom, it is its creature (6).

Obviously, the snake is coiled around the splendid invaluable stone. This one, symbol of transcendence expresses the capacity, the treasure that the snake keeps: for that which would manage to eliminate its vanity, the spoils would be large: behind this victory is offered a colossal treasure, vertiginous, out of imagination of course since imagination is before all the preferred weapon of vanity - the imaginative exaltation -. This is why the worst of the errors would be to start to imagine than could be this treasure: it is a mystery, it is all; a mystery symbolized by the red stone, “the eye of the snake”, the major and fragile part of the guard.

If one tries to still analyze this passage of film, one notes a danger in the action of Conan which could have been expensive to him: seeing the deadened snake, it decides to take the stone without the knowledge of this last. A bead of sweat falls on the eye of the snake and awakes it.

What a brilliant symbolism!

Conan, at the bottom, wants to kill Thulsa doom, i.e. to destroy its vanity. But, in front of the treasure kept by the guard-snake (image of Thulsa doom), Conan exalte and the covetousness of the stone seizes him: it is not guided any more by its surconscient. Indeed, it does not seek to kill the snake then to seize the spoils legally deserved after victory over the predator as the way surconsciente would require it but on the contrary it skews, and fascinated by the stone, seeks the reward without the confrontation. This dissociative state characteristic of the imagination exaltée on the capacity of the stone results in the beads of sweat beading on its face: it is afraid, it knows that it “makes badly” with respect to the internal law and of its Dharma, it knows that it cheating and is afraid of the punishment. Its body is not in agreement unified in the action and excessive perspiration of it is the proof.

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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:40

Like proof, the bead of sweat, symbol of the tear interns and from the distance of the essential desire fall on the eye of the snake and awakes it. I.e. it is precisely the state of imaginative exaltation which awoke the Master of the exaltations, the giant snake. It is quite logical. Lost in its contemplation, in its imaginative fascination of the stone, like front Thulsa doom the first time with his/her mother, Conan does not see the snake branning itself, ready to kill it and it is Subotaï, always with the aguets, which prevents it, the fate of its torpor and saves it. For Conan, this first meeting is a semi-failure and prevents danger inherent in the conceited fascination of Thulsa doom.

Let us give a simple example in the life common of this phenomenon such as the famous pressure of the match point to tennis in the important meetings: how much players did not lose their part after having had a match point at their disposal? From which does this pressure come which fascine and paralyses? It resides in the mental realization dissociating the individual and petrifying the action, remarkable in the form of an uncontrolled interior dialogue of type “I is to 1 point to gain the finale of the large slam against world number 1, it is lunatic! it would be my greater victory! etc. ”. This confrontation of the action in progress brought back to the picturesque representation of the medium surrounding and its place in its centre is undoubtedly the mark of the predator, of the conceited snake to cut down, using its favorite weapon of the imaginative exaltation at the inappropriate time.


Conan offers the large stone to Valeria and starts a relation in love with it. With the other stones found in the tower, the three accomplices have fun the festival, buy more objects than one should not any to them and sink in alcohol, carelessness, the wasting, the lucre and the lust until to be able any more nothing to make.

As one has just noted it, the victory of Conan over the snake was not truly honest. Instead of being unified in an action body-spirit guided by a sure principle, it was dislocated.

It is of course the difficulty in facing the test while being confronted with it with 100%, to metamorphose the unified body and the spirit, which wakes up fascination and the attraction for the imaginative exaltation, source of dissociation. More the test is difficult and risky, requiring a “complete abandonment to be it in fire”, more the danger “to fall into” the facility offered by vanity is important.

This cheating, this defeat which had with the fatal attraction exerted by the virtual profit poses ambivalence convulsion idealizing against outburst of the bestial instincts. This opposition released by Diel is explained as follows: Conan, in a nervous diagram, preferred exalter its energy towards the virtual possession of the object “eye of the snake”, while enjoying internally the capacity which it would have, of the felt pleasure, to think in this position to have. This deviance separates all energy at disposal in two distinct parts: part of energy exalte in the imagination where individual is subjugated by the lure, fascinated by its “interior shot”: “ah, that it is beautiful, that it is splendid, I arrived there”. .tandis que the other part of energy regresses completely in the subconscious, unutilised. It is then recovered by the dense and heavy side of the physical, elemental, non-aligned body with the imaginative exaltation. And it is this second “heavy” side, overloaded by the surge of energy of the dissociation, which will claim in its turn its share of expression in the form of an outburst of “standardizing” impulse: lucre and lust.

For this reason Conan consumes its semi-victory by releasing its “body” instincts of pleasure until dissolving there: sex, alcohol, wasting etc.


At the time of the most total forfeiture, soldiers come to seek the three companions and take along them in front of king Osric: “Thulsa Doom. I persiflé during years this demigod. Snakes in my splendid city. In the west Nemedia, Aquilonia, in the south Kush, Stygia, snakes. Everywhere its malefic towers. You only held head with their god. And yet which are you? Robbers. ” You see this? They call that the Hooks of the Snake and that Ci was inserted in deepest heart of a father by his own son.

And my own daughter fell under the charm from Thulsa Doom the Cursed one. Y T it has a scraping-knife like this one which it holds for me? It follows it as a slave seeking the truth of his heart as if I could not give it to him! While I speak to you, my daughter advances in the east towards Thulsa Doom and her Mountain of the Capacity. She wants to be offered to him. Take again to him my daughter, I give you all that you want. In here still, and still, enough to be a king yourself! It arrives a time sometimes where the jewels cease shining, where gold fades all its, where the throne room becomes a prison, and where there remains nothing any more but the love of a father for his child. “

This mission of King Osric, figure of recall of Zeus, the lucid Spirit, gives Conan on the direction of its mission: it must find and kill Thulsa doom and deliver the obscure female side face which it already failed. But the way in which it “is crammed” to carry out this mission carries once again the germ of the fall bus Osric promises “banal” gold, the perverting of Midas. The motivation of Conan seems thus divided between on the one hand embanking vanity and its fear but on the other hand to keep the pleasure of the “vulgar” pleasure in the material vice. This threat resulting from the first failure in front of “the eye of the snake” continuous.

This desire “for wanting the butter and the money of butter” will be the cause of many problems for the hero, but once again, the trick of the Spirit to give Conan on the good way will function nevertheless. Being given the level of dissociation reached by Conan after the episode of the eye and strong anchoring of part of its energy in the material pleasure, it is necessary to make him gleam vulgar gold to decide it with the movement.

Let us take a simple example in the mirror of the commun run to explain that.

Let us imagine that one says the following words to a Westerner intéréssé by the “spiritual” way and devoting out of its diagram job - family-house-friends an unquestionable time to interior research: ” if you give up your possession material and all your friends, you will have the ultimate illumination, the true Gift of God ". There is very little chance so that our subject takes the step, and it is quite normal! It is the foolish bet of the warrior of Castaneda which ignites imagination, but that nobody can only apply literally by giving up all without being insane.

On the other hand, surconscient it in us, uses tricks to bring us where he wants. If the individual sèrieusement is sèrieusement touched by this will of spiritual development, but as inserted in its social sphere, then it is clear as the motivation it “to move” must at the same time make gleam “the spiritual rise” (validated by the idealizing impulse - ego ideal) and material profit (so that all parts to be it, of which those captive in the physical life of pleasure can accept the evolutionary movement).

Indeed, this state of dissociation is already ours, since very small, by our education, our representation of ourself etc.

It only leaves on its horse, with all the glowing weapons and armours which it had acquired thanks to the stones flights with the tower.

Moreover, it leaves like a robber in the night and without warning his companions in direction of the mountain of the destiny. There, it entrusts its horse and its sword with an old wizard (the narrator) while requiring of him to monitor them well then is disguised as a pilgrim of Thulsa Doom after having stripped a priest of the sect.

It approaches in full light with the faithful ones, by showing its pass, the symbol of the sect. This pass which it holds up is different from that of the other pilgrims; indeed, it has like medallion that which it found in the tower of the snake, which is larger and more invaluable. It is by the latter that it is made uncover in the large stone staircase where Thulsa doom will speak with its disciples, in full light. Thulsa doom starts to speak and Rexor denounces “the inaccurate one”: crowd street on Conan to capture it.

While leaving only to discharge EC mission, it is like if Conan, not managing more to find the pleasure in the abandonment with the material vice, remembers its will to kill Thulsa doom and that acts like a stone in its shoe. He is the highly-strung person tortured by his conceited ideal, his imaginative exaltation of perfection, which it wishes to carry out for better turning over to the “banal” pleasure of his multiple desires. He would like “to dispatch” the problem, to see the exaltée task solved above all, as quickly as possible, with great impatience.

“Expressed by image, the nevrotic anguish is the anguish of the pit which grows hollow more and more deeply between the conceited aspirations and their guilty not-realization. Psychologically formulated, the nevrotic anguish is due to the unbearable increase in the conflict between the multiple desires and the exaltée task, contradiction which is the cause of painful convulsion.”
(Paul Diel - “Psychology of the motivation”)

This is why it only leaves, not legitimated by the Spirit in him, therefore without its allies initially and provided with glory gotten by its armours, its horse and its objects of great class.

Several facts in film point out that:

1) It is too heavily charged with its armour splendid and glowing in the extreme desert.
2) It meets ascetics who say to him “to give up his objects and to turn over to the Earth” and it makes fun of them.
3) Then, it asks the wizard to take care well on his horse.

In short, its attachment with the objects, its will not to separate from the pleasure felt through “having it” and from the possession push it with being impatient in its desire not to see the ideal more surconscient to be drawn up on its road towards the vulgar pleasure of which it believes that it can be prolonged ad infinitum. Thus, the conscience of a capacity of rise at the individual is not enough so much fastening body, significant, in the external world causes pleasure prolonged by the possession of objects improving comfort of the directions (it goes without saying this calculation of search for comfort is a calculation which one already more or less showed the nonsense: the more the had objects reduce the suffering - by comfort with respect to the external medium, the more the sensitivity of suffering moves back of as much and makes the individual weak and dependent on his environment: a dust in a silky environment is then enough to destabilize the individual, without counting that the permanent sequence in the search of objects is completely meaningless and wastes the forces of the individual throughout the life in nothing!).

The myth thus warns to us against this essential danger whose genesis in film must be well studied: Conan was perverted in exciting on the stone of the tower of the snake. In exciting, it made it impossible some share “to really touch”; the outburst of banal forces which was followed from there translated perverting to be fascinated by this “something” 'become inaccessible: it is the other end of the axis ideal exaltation - carelessness.

But the passage in the pleasure of the matter leaves traces, addictions such as those mention above by the will of possession of comfortable objects ensuring the social status, the capacity and the pleasure within the matric framework directly related to the sensitive one. This pleasure will not be quiet at 100% as long as remain hopes of ideal and spiritual rise in oneself illustrated by the destruction of Thulsa doom. This problem thus should be dispatched as quickly as possible, and in a certain way, “without the knowledge of the Spirit or its interior voice” which could put its salt grain well in it and repudiate the choices of the subject.

This is why it Me in this task is illustrated like a robber, who flees his “conscience”, which seeks “to have your cake and eat it”. And more the culpability, the impression badly to make approach, plus precipitation is large and the fall is close. This interior dissociation saps the bases of a healthy motivation and supplements essential to conclude any essential action. This false-motivation is finally clearly highlighted by the abandonment of the sword found in the tomb, left in the narrator, relegated to the row of banal object, formerly guide of clearness surconsciente and symbol of the Spirit acting through the hero.

As envisaged, on this staircase symbolic system of conceited rise where Conan believes that its trick functioned (but the ally capable of trick in him is far: it is Valeria, symbol of Athéna the malignant one!), it is precisely made uncover by the medallion symbol of its dual membership: its medallion is green, large and invaluable, where the others are black, small and sober. In other words, it is not completely destroyed by its vanity (like the black medallion) and conceals sharp forces (green) with a strong quantitative potential (large) and qualitative (invaluable).

Conclusion: whoever would like “to spare the goat and the cabbage” in its conscience would do nothing but reinforce vanity and would be thus exposed to an inescapable fall. There are not half-measures in the choices of the Spirit! If a warrior engages, it must do it thoroughly.

Another element deserves to be noted: one does not face vanity opposite, of face where it reigns as an absolute mistress. To approach by the bottom of the staircase, it is the unquestionable failure.

In other words, this enemy, by the Matrix, has relays in all the consciences; he determines the reactions of each one by exploiting the automatisms of the company.

The alchemists scrambled their text, the esoteric companies hide at the base to avoid the heavy fire of the bad intellectual faith: one can say all and anything with intellect: all is true and its opposite, only counts the subjacent motivation which will act. In this democratic occident where the freedom of word seems to be queen, one however distinguishes this road roller which rolls all and promotes only one “single thought” trés blocking.

The battle of the intellectuals “limited” of today is to think as well as possible of this single thought, to smell the evolutions and to precede them them, to marry them like viscous parasites. This road roller, vector of the Matrix, are arranged then to scorn and humiliate or adapt any new creation: either it is fantastic and transcendent, or it is null, already considering or idiot. In all the cases, the judgement is in any event dualistic!

The concepts developed here require an interior confrontation of each one for reading in oneself the veracity or not remarks present. This confrontation is done in the shade, silence, the creative rest. It is not put up with the fast buzzes of the exaltée imagination, which, being empty of action in rem can show a great celerity. The current social world is empty, hollow and distressing nonsense; television relays this feverish state and exalte the image of oneself and vanity permanently.
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:40

One saw people trying to say true things by these media since years, but, too out of “the single spirit thought, they collected humiliation through malicious concise sentences copied on the taboos of “the spirit of time” [id is: any subject which engages a disproportion of emotional projection of bien-mal type]” but then you are racist? But then you are a sect? You say that but you gained two hundred and thousand frank, then at this price, one can say anything! It is not old-fashioned to think etc thus. “The purpose of All these remarks are only to stigmatize hatred with regard to the” pigeon “. Because, it is nothing of more serious for vanity than to feel attacked in its gasoline by remark” authentic “- each one having in its for interior the pivot of the driven back essential culpability, the notion of the sailplane quite present as Castaneda would write it -, for this reason, the public reaction will be strong and violent, since” the inaccurate one “will have refused to sacrifice its energy on the furnace bridge of the conceited insanity or will have expressed a doubt when at the market the easily deceived ones whose its similar are victims. Not, it is not really a good method only to face vanity by seeking the approval as of his: ” all together against this enemy “is really a soft myth!

Then Conan is found bastonné by its enemies and discusses with Thulsa doom: Conan plaintive, is overcome and groans by showing the oppressor to have killed his people. Rétorque Thulsa doom that it perhaps made that, when it sought the secrecy of steel. but that all that does not have any more importance since it found truth capacity worthy of him: capacity of the flesh. Joining the gesture and the word, it makes sign with one of its young disciples located in top of the wall constituting the circular arena in which they are to come to him. “Come to me my child” says it, and it comes towards him of being crushed ten meters lower, committing suicide on the blow. And Thulsa doom to exclaim: “that, it is truth capacity! ” and it finishes: “you will reflect on it on the tree of misfortune”.

The fall announced by the episode of the tower of the snake is now effective. Conan failed and its plaintive behavior is not without pointing out to the moanings located by Reich oozing under the characterial armour masochist: the being crushed by its false-choices, the matric armour weighing from now on too heavily, it remains nothing any more but one throbbing lament chronic characteristic of this defeat.

Thulsa doom, victorious, exposes us a fundamental factor: ego the monopoly of the Evolution does not have because vanity and the predator also evolve/move in the individual and seek to reinforce their capacity while being metamorphosed for better fixing it. It is there that is all the subtlety of the passage, in the search for Thulsa doom, of the “secrecy of steel” to the “capacity of the flesh”. Formerly, it sought to him also intellect. Why? Because to be able to make act to be it in the direction of the conceited error, it used intellect at the same time like means of action and mental construction of justification. From now on, its capacity dissociator increased: it does not need more this tool because it was inserted more deeply in the subconscious, fascinating from now on directly the control of the body, in the form of unconscious motivations making act the individual without the knowledge of him in the same way like a fascinating complex “jungien” from now on the reins of the individual, able to bring it to the complete self-destruction of the forces of the individual as it shows it by killing the girl fascinated by her capacity of death.

This passage of the “secrecy of steel” to the “capacity of the flesh” for Thulsa doom is clearly characteristic of the passage of a nervous state or a light neurosis to a major neurosis even a psychosis.

Indeed, where the light neurosis is characterized by instinctual irruptions whose individual is aware and control relatively while yielding to the whim of the impulse, being justified by intellectual constructions related to the false motivation, the psychosis, it, lets discontinuous states settle where it Me “reasonable and conscious” of the individual did not take even any more and even any more does not realize what he is making, so much he is fascinated and dislocated by the interior complex become prevalent in its operation. Therefore, in this state, plus need for justification intellectual nor of “secrecy of steel” since the capacity is established directly in the subsoils of the subconscious (does not arrive any more at the conscience like a car-hypnosis) of the victim.

Exaltée imagination, broken up into daydream of escape (sexual, material, pseudo-spiritual) and into false motivation (exaltées justification and inculpation), is a first step towards the subconscious reactions. [.] More imagination exalte, also the highly-strung person moves away from reality, the conscious life, the logical expression. The autosuggestion changes, in consequence of the increasing anguish, in hypnotic somnolence. [.] In the states nevrotic, car-hypnosis is not yet permanent but more or less momentary. It may be even that it lasts only a few seconds. It is in moments when anguish exaltée of doubt about oneself is awaked by events unfavourable (or events tempters which exaltent the dream subconscious of the driven back desires), it is in these moments that the individual plunges in the hypnotic state and that the expression symbolic system of the false motivation it symptom - occurs: a obsessif or phobic act, a tic, a tonic or organic spasm. [.] Since symbolism nevrotic is not as well as a complication of the nervous inconsistancy, an amplified state of exaltée imagination, daydream, a dream subconscious, and since the nervous inconsistancy is the false-motivation itself, it is clear that symbolism nevrotic must hide the same significance. [.] In the psychosis, because of car-hypnosis become constant, the most lucid function, the thought itself, is reached. Through false motivation, of false interpretation, through mésusage of the understanding function, comprehension dies out, the orientation in the life is lost, the patient does not include/understand more the life, it did not see it more consciously, it dreams it. The dream replaces the conscious life and its corrélat, reality. Exaltée imagination is put finally at the place of reality, becomes again reality. But it is a completely subjective reality which exists only for the patient. The inconsistancy symbolic system becomes hallucinatif inconsistancy. With sensory and organic hallucinations are added the hallucinations of the feelings and of the thoughts, be delirious them. The psychosis is distinguished from the neurosis by the fact that motivation distorts it does not deform more only the life of the feelings, but also the intellectual and spiritual function, precisely the function which develops the desires. Already in the neurosis this function is gradually illogical (7), it is distorted, it develops, it judges wrongfully but only with regard to the emotional life, the life of the feelings. The capacity of abstraction, the theoretical thought remains logical and intact. In the psychosis, the whole life is invaded by the deformation. It is not only any more the affect but the thought itself which is transformed into symptom, which is expressed symbolically, which is expressed in a delirious way.
(Paul Diel - “Psychology of the motivation”)


Conan is found crucifié on a tree in the desert, subjected to the extreme sun, the vultures coming on him to try to devour it whereas it is with half dying man. It succeeds in biting a vulture and to kill it but its survival is due only to one wire. Subottaï emerges then which comes to deliver it.

As in all film, which arrives at Conan does not have any direction on the plan of realities where it would have killed being; on the other hand mythical interpretation delivers new invaluable information to us. The analysis of the punishment of Conan brings back for us to the crushing presence of the characterial armour quoted above. Since from now on Vanity gained, the free side of Ego, “the true” capacity of movement and action is stopped, connected. From now on, the body and the spirit of the individual are under control of the energy of the predator, of the carapace. Ego “essential” does not have any more but to complain, suffer and end up being identified with the projective currents generated by the armour. But an analysis even more thorough leads us to bring closer the punishment Conan of that of Prométhée in the Greek myth. Prométhée, for its fault of having by letting the men privilege utility intellect (fire), let the perverse imaginative forces break out in banal pleasure or exaltation towards a task idealizing, convulsant the body and dissociating the forces of the individual, moving away it from his heart and sound surconscient is seen attached to a rock where an eagle comes to devour the liver to him. The dry tree on which Conan is connected is symbol of” died of the heart “which it is undergoing.

Attached to the Earth, it undergoes its punishment by where it fished: they are its terrestrial material desires, of lucre and of lust which moved away it from the spirit surconscient, of the sword-guide of its values.

In the myth of Prométhée, the eagle which devours the liver of Titan is symbol of the culpability and of the sin carried out with respect to the spirit-Zeus, this eagle tourmentor (the eagle is the bird of the god of the gods) shows that the case of Prométhée is not completely lost and that it aspires to escape “death from the heart” to find surconscient it.

Undoubtedly that such an eagle would have also had its place in film but in front of the manifest inconsistency in the field of the object, the realizers preferred a vulture which one will be able to accept that it has the same mythical direction here. Prométhée will be saved by Héraclès, killing the eagle with one of its arrows, symbol there too of the weapon of the gods thus symbolizing the redemption. Subotaï is also the carrier of the arc, also guided by Hermès, it revêt thus the same significance. Conan, still aspiring to clearness surconscient in spite of its errors, is seen delivered of its torment by Subotaï sent of the lucid spirit.


Conan, between the life and death after the test of the tree is found neat by Valeria, Subotaï and the wizard-narrator. This last announces that this night, the spirits of deaths will seek to take it and that it will have to survive or perish. After a fight baited against the spirits of the night which want to carry Conan, the remission starts and Conan is involved with the sword of the tomb.

This part translates the rebirth after the test of the tree: to certify major comprehension that it has of seizing at the end of its torment, it must set out again to zero: a new man having included/understood his error, from now on full with this new energy state where the comprehension of its failure is complete.

“It is not possible that a man assembles two horses, that it bandages two arcs.
It is not possible that a servant serf two Masters, if not it will honour one and scorn the other.
No man drinks old wine, and does not wish at once to drink new wine.
One does not pour new wine in old goatskin bottles for fear they do not burst,
and one does not pour old wine in in addition to new for fear it does not spoil it.
One does not sew an old part with a new clothing.
That would cause the tear. “
(Logion 47 - “Evangelio of Thomas”)

This small logion exposes the problem of dissociation which led Conan to the loss: Conan could not be at the same time guided by surconscient (higher) and to let its conceited desires (lower) allure it. The sanction of the tree puts an end painfully in this state and from now on, the old wine (better, it Oneself) cannot be versed in in addition to new (inexperienced, corruptible by vanity) without danger. Thus the test of death will metamorphose it definitively to make emerge a new divine state at 100% or destroy it completely.

The test passed successfully, it recovers. From this moment of film, it does not speak almost any more - already that it was hardly loquacious! - and shown of an inflexibility and a total implacability. It is not really any more human: more no banal contact touches it, it is close to the perfect free state, entirely guided by surconscient, but the shade of Thulsa doom always planes.

Valeria finds a plan to capture the princess: it is necessary to pass by caves under the mountain, behind the staircase and giving access in the middle of the sanctuary of the malicious one. The three companions comb the face in camouflage, return in the caves where a surprising spectacle awaits them. They pass by the corridor where food is manufactured; the cooks like the soldiers and all the henchmen have leather masks on the face, they cut up corpses, cut out some the members and make them boil in a greenish juice species which is then been used for all the participants in the orgy. At the end of the passage the place of the orgy is: men and women prélassent themselves in the cushions, the ones on the others in a kind of gigantic orgy; in the throne medium a gigantic column ending in the effigy of a snake, a woman attached to the foot, dancing lascivement. Thulsa doom contemplates its work, sitted on a throne, with with its feet the princess with the snakes and a connected jaguar. It operates a strange metamorphosis then and is transformed into giant snake. Conan and its companions post themselves around the orgiaque arena, Subotaï of saying “it then is that, the paradise! ”.
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:41

This time, Conan finds with Valeria competence to manufacture plans which hold the road: warlike the spiritual Athenian one finds a means of going in the middle of the fortress. It is not a question any more of attacking by the staircase into full light - impossibility of carrying out “work” at the day with its similar but rather only with its interior allies by tackling vanity by the lower part, in an emergence of surconscient in the middle of the evil -. The idea there is found that the force of the evil concentrated on the rigidity and the control of the vulgar force in quantity. To tackle face is impossible because it has already its seat on us! The same principle appears in “the Star Wars”: it is with an insufficient force in a number that it is necessary to go to strike “in the middle of star”, while trying not to show itself. This is why in Conan, the company prepares its operation camouflage and then sees the real horse-gear of vanity.

On its staircase, in front of its disciples, Thulsa doom exalte the spiritual task reinforcing “nervous dissociation thus source of psychological pathology. But inside his field, one notes the morbid operation of the process: the guests eat corpses, i.e. the sharp forces of the individual nourish themselves, dislocate themselves in a pit, where, having lost any capacity of action, they car-are digested. The exaltée task transports to the other end the physical forces of the individual in a filthy dump where, as doped and drunk of satanic fascination, they are nourished of their own body, believing to reach with sublime (from there remark of Subotaï on the paradise). The conceited process is highlighted of an end at the other of the scale. This symbolism of the anthropophagy is not without pointing out the Tantalum crime giving to eat with the Gods the body of his Pélops son.

Since food that the divinities are used for the statesman of rise has a hidden significance, symbolizing the joy of spiritualization-sublimation, food that the man, wanting to be equal gods, the mortal in a state of conceited rise, is used to the divinities must have, it also, a psychic range which can be only the reverse of the sublime significance. Contemptible food that Tantale offers to the divinities would be thus its perverting. […] “Wire killed” figure terrestrial desires psychiquement killed, perversely destroyed: repression. the “wire killed, used for the table of the gods”, symbolizes the conceited exaltation with its roof: the repression of any terrestrial pleasure, repression due to the erroneous conviction of thus being able to transform the pleasure driven back into sublime joy, perversion in spiritual quality, and “to thus serve” the ideal of the spirit, the “divinities”. However, the driven back desires did not really die, they continue to feed psychism; but they are transformed into perverting; they constitute a contemptible food: Tantalum likes its carnal desires secretly (its “sons”), he likes them in a exaltée way, and, although he “kills” his desires, that he drives back them, he remains persuaded that they are a delicious food. […] In order to seize all the extent of symbolization, it is important to stress that Tantale does not sacrifice only its perverting, which would be true sublimation. Its project to become equal gods encourages it with a exaltée rise, it kills “his/her son”, the natural desires. It succumbs to perverting by exaltation towards the sublime one. Any man should sacrifice the exaltée temptation of the body impulses. But, to sacrifice even the nature's need for the impulses, it is to exceed the human condition, it is to aspire to this supreme degree of sublimity which is indicated by symbolism “deification”. Accessible only to the most exceptional moral strength, it is the psychic state which it man, entirely purified becomes, indeed, symbolically the equal one, of these figures of the perfect purity which are the “divinities”. Tantalum deprived of forces directors, her aspiration falls down on the level of an imaginative exaltation. It still becomes a more dangerous perversion than the exaltation of the body impulses. It is the perversion of the spirit in its most decisive form: vanity with its paroxysm.
(Paul Diel - “symbolism in Greek mythology”)

Thus we have a more complete reading of perverting “tantalien” of Thulsa doom: it represents this vanity which exalte and channels the forces of the individual towards an insatiable imagination of the spiritual task exaltée to achieve (to become most beautiful, most perfect, the cosmic ideal, the hero, star etc.) and for lack of real force to carry out its intention, to be in parallel plunges it in a complete perverting of its forces directors.

With the central column base of the snake dances a connected brown girl; the symbolism of this image is found exactly with the princess brown, prophetess with the feet of her Master snake, large prototype taking again that of the first witch met.

The princess of the night

This princess, prophetess with two snakes being rolled up around her wrists takes again the significance of the first meeting carried out by “free” Conan: the witch. The princess of the night, here, is not other than the legal bond linking the man in Nagual, the way of passage towards the unknown and the blow, it is the access to pure energy emanating from this virgin space (the virginity of the princess is only one symbol of the richness of the interior extents to clear). And if the fear were the first feeling of Conan in front of this night, this inconsistancy, this pit, it does not remain about it less than to adapt this bond is essential to continue the Integration of Self. One notes in the passing that any myth concerning the delivery of a princess captured by a dragon finds its direction here, far from the usual pseudo-sexual explanations! The battle against Thulsa doom thus takes a richer direction: admittedly its influence should be destroyed but it is necessary in more adapting the treasure (the ruby, “the eye of the snake”). One of course finds the divine direction of the mission of king Osric, recall of Zeus: recover my daughter! And indeed, this princess of the night is the eye of Thulsa doom; when it preaches, it is trotted in top of the steps with its snakes with the wrists like radars, sensors with the service of the Master. Did Thulsa doom thus succeed in fascinating this princess, to have it under her domination, why? If one regards it as the bond of advanced in Nagual, this bond is used so much little by the human being which it regresses in the subsoils of unconscious like an energy in latency, rather neutral at the bottom, but where recovered by Thulsa doom, it expresses its power: conceited control, the oppression of the predator in us thus uses this current of formidable energy which is our unutilised bond with Nagual. And if the common individual cannot separate these two concepts, it would seem that there is nevertheless a possibility of doing it: in other words the fear is not related to the intensity: the force of the petrification in front of Thulsa doom is partly due to the force which it draws from this bond with the princess. She is the nerve of the interior battle! Its recovery is essential.

Since it represents this bond with the Intention, Nagual, it shows astonishing characteristics: it is subjected to Thulsa doom, as it will be subjected then to Conan. It shows a total plasticity while being always the slave of its Master. Indeed, it is a principle, a force which adapts to the desires of most powerful, of the most marked will in being it. Like a violent dog with a violent or soft Master with a soft Master, it adapts to the form of the feeling. Just as the individual constitutes desires which “are printed in the astral one” and always seek to be carried out years after they became null and void, it gives body, it build and print in Nagual the mark of the direction given to the service of the Master that it serves, good or bad. If king Osric recovers it, that will mean that from now on, the conscious lucid spirit and surconscient has the capacity to print its mark in the unknown, to give body to its intention, by projecting wire necessary, by finding the capacity of rough use of the bond with the Spirit, from now on épousseté (like the dinosaurs in the search of wings of the example of chapter I), in a unified action body-spirit at 100% in the legality of evolution of the individual.

Thulsa doom, with with its feet the princess (control of Yin) and the connected jaguar (control of Yang) is the absolute owner of energies of the individual; muzzling its capacity of contemplation, development of the interior bond - by the princess and her capacities of brutal release and animal - by the jaguar. It can then reveal what it is and metamorphose themselves in giant snake, principle and gasoline of the Predator.

Each one has at the bottom of oneself the prescience of this nauseating oppression, the dislike of the signed pact giving the keys of our freedom to the snake. The dreams, art or the visions make it possible to reach in the form of symbol this share of ourself which “knows” and represents its test.

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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:41

The men who serve it are masked, like the soldiers of the emperor in Starwars, showing by there that with the service of vanity, we are pawns without individuality. Our personality, our own being are contrits under an oppressive mask and uniform which indicates to us that we are interchangeable as in the social sphere where the sufficient feeling “of indispensability” is only one poor shield to think a false unicity where we are clones (“One needed four people to replace ME on MY station! ”). In fact, “essential beings, there are full the cemeteries of them” (Michel Brasil). It should well be realized that the identification with the social role serves the animal immonde and reinforces the negation its own being! These tight leather masks are the proof of the terrible oppression imposed by the enemy: everyone must have the same feelings of shame, pity or charge on the things and the others. The mask is used to deny unicity, to avoid the emergence of the single and powerful métamorphe binding us to our major nature.

"The individual is invested supreme mission of preserving his identity, in spite of civilizing propensity to withdraw it to him, just as in the human body each cell has a speciality. [.] Castration is certainly worst events than it can occur with the individual. The predispositions from which it profits with its birth, which it forged only, within the antenatal framework completely neglected besides Westerners, [.] must be used as engine, and not to be looked after, as certain “social sciences claim it”, the psychoanalysis at the head, these swindles learnedly organized by ewes mislaid in evil of authority whose final objective and not-solicitor are not other than the domestication of the man. A civilization can be flourishing only by developing the fundamental principle which is the specific function to each individual, the principle of equality being finally only the being wrong principle of homogenisation of the herd, which denounces, would be this only the unicity of each face. “(Prohibited philosophy)


The three companions attack the arena of the pleasure, Valeria captures the princess while Conan and Subotaï take care of the guards. The two hearts damnées of Thulsa doom, Rexor with its sword and Thorgrim with its large hammer are able to protect the sanctuary. Battle: the central tower collapses, Conan do not kill them but demolishes them and the four flee. Thulsa doom, placed in top of its tower takes an arc and draws a arrow-snake on the troop which reaches Valeria and kills it. It says in the passing like a threat: “Now they will learn why they are afraid of the black. Now they will know why they fear the night.”

The two damnées hearts of Thulsa doom are characteristic of the types of interior perversion.

Gorgones, three sisters: Medusa, Euryale and Stheno, are monsters. They can thus symbolize only the interior enemy to fight. The monstrous deformations of psyché are due to the perverted forces of the three impulses: sociality, sexuality and spirituality. The spiritual and evolutionary impulse prevails on the others. The queen of Gorgones, Medusa, must thus symbolize the perversion of the spiritual impulse: conceited stagnation.
(Paul Diel - “symbolism in Greek mythology”)

Thus, Thorgrim with its hammer is most primary and represents lower perverting: pleasure of vulgarizing, the silly thing and vulgarity. It is the contemptible abandonment with all the forms of pleasure resulting from the facility of the directions: sex, nutrition, sadism etc. Its weapon, an enormous hammer-bludgeon is with its image, coarse, thick, stupid, banal and idiotic, the opposite of any rise. Its physique, large, round is that of lymphatic complete, a rough being evil trimmed, one dilated dull with the oral receivers always in full waiting of vulgar jouissif flow, with glaucous eyes and a happy expression when it obtains its toy.

Rexor, is more malignant to him. As a symbol of the perverting of the social function, it represents the will common capacity, the will to shine in its work environment, with his friends or his family. It is the competence directed towards this goal which is to use its intellect to allure and to be at best the EC until the social environment can wait somebody to put it on a pedestal. It is thus a candidate born, a combatant towards outside to shine in the “first ring of being able”. He will be the moron who sticks to you on the motorway with his 4/4 by making calls of headlight when you double, the dumb society man who will lapidate the innocent ones or the too spontaneous ones with “well felt” sentences of the spirit of time (cf pharisees.). He “will have always seen” what there is to see, “makes the United States” or “taken a tea with the Manchu last in southernmost China”! For this reason, it is strongly equipped in combative energy. It is a bilieux type in the diagram of Hippocrates, of yellowish dye, controlling intellect and the ideas in what they have of surface but more visible (within the meaning of a whip which opera hat on surface inflicting an immediate wound). Since such is its operation, its weapon is of course the sword, symbol of the edge of intellect. Who more is, the sword of Rexor, one will discover it after, is the proper sword of steel stolen to the father of Conan! This factor ratifies the interpretation released at the beginning of film: this sword which symbolized intellectual fire Prométhéen, the revolt against the clearness of the Spirit is now between the hands of social perverting, proof that intellect was diverted of its direction evolutionary and canted to serve only it to Me and by extension to plunge to be it and the world in misery and horror (the XX° century.).

The two damnées hearts of Thulsa doom are characteristic of the types of interior perversion.

" The more I thought of it, the more I observed my similar and myself, the more intensified the conviction that something returned to us unable of any activity or interaction not focused on ego. My only concern, as that of all those which I knew or met was my me. Not finding any other justification with this universal homogeneity, I conclude that the explanation of Gift Juan (on the predator) constituted the best explanation of the phenomenon. “
(Carlos Castaneda - “the final voyage”)

The remark of Thulsa Doom on the fear of the night, threatening in film, can be interpreted rather here like a new knowledge of the hero who, having torn off the symbol of the bond with the unknown, is from now on equipped with a new capacity of knowledge on the obscure principles governing his destiny and on the monstrosities existing in the nagual.

Valeria, it, is sacrificed. This sacrifice does not intervene by chance: it says to Conan “the wizard, I said to him that I was ready to pay the gods. ”; in other words, the spectacular remission of Conan at the time when the spirits of deaths sought to carry it makes with the costs life of Valeria. It was sacrificed for him and undergoes by the arrow-snake the punishment. This sacrifice is divine, it dedicates it to the search of Conan and becomes itself a principle crowned, entering another plan, undoubtedly higher. It is noted that the projected, human or material part of Athéna cannot coexist any more with the hero such as it changed after its initiatory shock of the tree and the rebirth. In other words, the interior force to be represented it by Valeria and who could represent the projection of animated in an incarnated body of woman as long as it was alive, must now pass in a different, higher plan. It is well the predator which kills it, but in fact, it can kill only the part accessible to its arrow, the material and conceited part of Valeria, the part “corrupted” by the flesh and the desires of the banality, the projective part. The gasoline of its combat and its being remain obviously whole and one can expect to find them.

Conan turns over to the hillocks of the Titans, burns the body of Valeria, and prepares with the wizard-narrator and Subotaï of the traps for the battle which inevitably will oppose it to Thulsa doom and all its warriors who will come to recover the princess. The warriors arrive, many, Conan made its prayer, everyone is held ready.

Thulsa doom cannot make another thing only come to recover the princess. He also rests on it in being it to penetrate and to evolve/move in the darkness, without it, its sharp force is cut, its roots did not take more, it is vital for its survival to take it again.

The battle occurs in the hillocks from the giants, in full sun. It is perhaps there that the giants fought for the secrecy of steel formerly; it will be there that Conan will be able to then repair the ancestral error.


Thulsa doom arrives with its warriors and the coward in the menhirs, itself remaining with the variation. The soldiers all are demolished, there remains only Thorgrim and Rexor. Thorgrim is made have by a coarse trick of trapped helmet which it takes for the head of Conan and finds itself with a pile in the heart. Observing the death of Thorgrim, Conan approaches and Rexor benefits from it to strike, makes him release its weapon and is about to carry out it when “the spirit” of Valeria appears, haloed in a brilliant silver plated armour, plugging Rexor. This deferment makes it possible Conan to recover the Atlante sword and to fight Rexor. They strike their swords one against the other until that of Rexor, the steel sword of the father of Conan, breaks into two, allowing Conan to complete its adversary. Conan collects the broken sword, turns to the sun, the two swords in hand and thanks the gods. Meanwhile, Thulsa doom, seeing the lost part, tries to kill the princess with an arrow snake, and this, in spite of supplications of the latter. Subotaï, while placing a shield right at the good time prevents the crime and Thulsa doom flees under the cries of joy of the troop.

The death of Thorgrim is with the image of the character: its silly thing loses it and its hammer causes its defeat, it is killed all alone, is digested in its stupidity without including/understanding too much what arrives to him. Rexor, increasingly more malignant, profits by trick and félonie from the convenient period. Until where this element of social perverted can it go? what can stop it? : in singular combat, after having treacherously unbalanced its adversary, it shows of force and extreme combativeness which put Conan in danger. Thus considering, the art social of domination to work at all but particularly present at some in this company returns them quasi invulnerable, supported by the collective order and legitimacy of their combat distorts it that returns the matric applause to them; they are believed very allowed, even the abjection, as long as it is popular. We see here the full development of the “first ring with being able”, the maximum power which it can reach in the vulgar one.

It is the transcendent intervention of Valeria, proof that the hero reached “the second ring of being able” exceeding all that Rexor can represent which is decisive. The effect of synchronicity, the chance or coincidences formidable are not due randomly: they are the fruit of the evolution of the hero, of the evolution of the Principle in us, which, through obstinacy in the will to connect itself to the Intention ends up being carried out and appearing at the convenient period. The sacrifice of Valeria placed part to be it of on a higher level, it granted the divine aid. But this help, always at the crucial time is only one flash and the individual must from now on gain the combat by his own means.

The combat begins again, and by breaking the sword of his/her father, Conan definitively proves the greatest force of the Atlante sword, of the sword crowned of surconscient, the greatest force of the light - supramentale- on fire or steel - mental.

After the victory, it collects and recognizes the broken sword, then collects and thanks the gods, showing by there that it included finally /understood the true power of the Spirit and definitively killed in him the remainders of the education first of his father, dissociative and source of existential error.

While requesting in front of the sun (symbol of light and spirit, of Zeus), it shows this state of contemplation, comprehension and peace which settles in him.

The princess, understanding that Thulsa doom prefers to see it dead that with the service of Conan changes Master. It makes a reversal with 180° and is from now on ready with very to help its new Master, including killing the old one. The bond with the Intention is really plastic, it yields - unfortunately or fortunately with the energy complex laws of the strongest in us.

Conan killed the allies but it remains has to eliminate the monster definitively, then only it will have discharged its task. In the myth of Persée, this last is satisfied to decapitate Méduse, letting the two other sisters continue it in vain, showing by there that the defeat of spiritual perversion is enough to stop the evil. Here, Conan starts by killing the equivalent of the two sisters (Rexor and Thorgrim) but must thus now absolutely eliminate the chief.

Symbolization expresses clearly, that the hero does not become able to release the woman threatened of perverting, that after having fought victoriously against its own essential danger.
(Paul Diel - “Symbolism in Greek mythology”)

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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:42


Conan sets out again of night towards the mountain of the capacity of Thulsa doom. It is accompanied by the girl by king Osric, who become his ally allows him to penetrate in the middle of the fortress and to embank the guards: it advances with its snakes and the fascinated and weakened guards are then carried out by Conan. They arrive in top of the fortress whereas Thulsa doom is preaching in top of the staircases. When it sees Conan, it is turned over towards him and starts to speak to him on a tone about confidence: “My child, you came to me, my son. Because which could be your father if it is not me? Who gave you the will to live? I am the powerful mountain where you take your source. When I am not any more, you will never have been. Imagine what would be your world without me. My son. My son!”. Conan is then destabilized, broken down, confused pretence then is seized again and the head with the broken sword of his/her father crosses to him, holds up it in front of the faithful ones and throws it.

This end is a true final bouquet which contains the quintessence of all that was previously exposed. One seizes only at this time the complete mythical nature of Thulsa doom. It is exactly this complex of representation of Ego of each one, the gasoline of the sailplane of Castaneda: it is the conscience that we set up ourselves in theory fixes, sufficiency and the ego, the concept of its name, of its race, its place in the social world, the practices and the ways of reacting usual or characteristic of the medium in which one pushed. It contains a positive germ represented by the fact that by pushing the wheel of pain at the beginning of its captivity, Conan became extremely and developed, thanks to its ego, a body able to fight and to be essential in the material world.

Such is the ego: an essential element to adapt to the medium but whose presence produces finally a smothering which cuts us quiet force and of fluid capacity of action in the world. More exactly, the biological share of the ego is essential and the way of being posed in the social background by the means of the comparisons enables him to grow what is a good thing; but once the representations of oneself and the medium solidified, they is there that develops the conceited error, the imaginative exaltation and repression on the direction of the life. All that takes place by the tool of exaltée imagination, making involuer be it in a buckled circuit, except its “real share”. And thus it is necessary to consider Thulsa doom, fruit of this logic, Master of the dreams and the wills to be able, sexual, social, of the ambitions and the competitions, will to shine in its environment, always while thinking in a certain situation. The only exit point of course consists in living in a way “divinement guided” by its surconscient, without any imaginative representation other that that which one needs to solve a problem with the service of an intellect submitted to the Master spirit. It is a return to the concept of achievement of its Dharma.

This manner of being includes the gift, the love and the rise to be it with the direction where the Gospels seem to symbolize it. But Thulsa doom tries to cut down its last chart to save its skin: it tries to charm and fascinate Conan once again. Its speech is a wonder of example of its catch capacity in us. If we leave his influence, we evolve/move in a virgin universe, to discover, full with intensity and innovation, guided by surconscient in a saving mental silence. Thulsa doom says that the existence of Conan does not have a direction without him, which is true in a certain way since until there, Conan passed its life to be tried to embank this enemy. It tries to be made pass once again for the father where Conan draws its power and its intensity from life: indeed, the pleasure caused by the imaginative exaltation of the desire and the covetousness of anything remains still most important in our life, how could there y have other sources of intensity in this life that the shiver felt in the will to have, imagine “the head of the others”, its glory or its social and sexual success? It is precisely these problems which divert the hero and Thulsa doom inserts the nail with sound: “imagines what would be the world without me. .mon wire! ” The perversion and the trap of this sentence are diabolic. If Conan starts would be this to only consider or imagine this assumption, it falls down immediately under the cut of the conceited monster because this last is a Master of imagination here. But the prospect for a life without this last seems empty of richness and pleasure, a dry desert!

This is why the hero wavers at this time crucial.

"A sad day, in fact, since one owes dice at the time managing alone while counting only on his own resources, which are practically null. Nobody is there to say to us than to make, no clandestine spirit dictates more idiocies to us to which we are accustomed.
My Master, the nagual Julian, frequently said to his disciples that it was the most difficult moment of the life of a wizard, because our true spirit, that which belongs to us into clean and summarizes with our personal experiment, became timid, anxious and reducing after a whole life of control. It is then, in my opinion, that the true combat begins from the wizard. The remainder is only one simple preparation “
(Gift Juan speaking about the departure of the Predator human being in “the final Voyage”)

But something changed, Conan is accompanied by the girl of king Osric, this new ally symbolizing the rallying of the forces of obscure (young person brown, main prophetess of the snakes), giving him the capacity of action without fear of the unknown from now on. Does it make a noise? The camera recalls its presence to the moment of the fateful hesitation: Conan wavers, large plan on the prophetess, Conan looks at its enemy and it became what it was: odious, pushing back with its sweetened fascination. It reacts and kills it. It decapitates its enemy like Persée decapitated Méduse and in the passing the same symbolic system means us.

It is noticed that it cuts the head of Thulsa doom with the sword of intellect, the sword broken by the higher sword of the Spirit, why? Conan from now on reached the stage of “seeing”, of the understanding right of the essential desire, it “sees” the monster such as it is. When it was blind, it was to rise by the sword of the Spirit, symbol of Rise; but, from now on, it is as the cat of being able of which all the rats are afraid, in “seeing” the true face of the tyrant, a simple push is enough to make it fall. To kill by the lower sword the new state reached translates: that of the obviousness, to be it and of “I AM”. Conan becomes the capacity and intellect is its servant; it will thus be used to kill the enemy for the example. After, one throws it - jet of the sword in the steps - and one remains in the Spirit.

Conan holds up the distinct head of Thulsa doom and shows it to the disciples. This act makes it possible the latter to leave their hypnotic torpor. They are young, they are the sharp forces of the individual and “realize” what occurs. They throw their candles in the basin, giving up the illusory myth forged by the mystifier, and take the way of the responsibility, joining the ground without exaltation.


Conan descends the staircases and in bottom the princess is who prostrate in front of him, with its feet. It passes to side, the changing, with surprised of the young woman, and puts it upright.

The last test: Will Conan become Caliph in the place of the Caliph?

By killing Thulsa doom Conan can recover all the power and the structure installation by fire its enemy. The princess, who knows other modes of development only the constraint with her Master, incites Conan to become the new guru. It is the emperor saying to Luc “come to take the place of your father at my sides” or the attempt at corruption of Jesus by the devil.

" The demon takes it along on a very high mountain and shows to him all the kingdoms of the world with their glory.
It says to him: “All that I will give it to you, if you prostrate to adore me.”
Then, Jesus says to him: “Back Satan because it is written: It is in front of the lord your God that you will prosterneras yourself, and it is him only whom you will adore. ” Then the demon leaves it.
(Evangelio according to Saint-Mathieu - Chapter 4 - Verses 9-11)

But Conan remains in the Spirit: by raising the princess, then while descending the steps, it shows its Intention to finish some definitively with this temptation. It does not reproduce the Luciférien crime to want “to be God” and means with this energy formation with work in us, represented by the princess, to turn over to serve the light and the Spirit, his divine father represented by king Osric, recall of Zeus.


Conan burns the mountain of the capacity, the disciples throw their torch in the basin in bottom of the staircases. The basin gleaming in bottom of the staircases, symbol of the mirage of the sharp forces of the individual, plugged by vanity becomes the cemetery of the candles of the false-guru.

Conan burns the mountain of the capacity by sending an ignited ball starting from bottom. This ball translates the desire higher stated to make disappear by fire, in an upswing any trace of conceited rise in type “mountain in the capacity”, Tower of Babel or other. The hero sets out again virgin.

The final plan shows it descending the mountain with the girl in her arms: it turns over to the ground, in the world of in bottom; with material reality but spiritualized, detached of any exaltée imagination. It from now on will evolve/move as a free man, in direct contact with reality, unit with the action. Just as the initiate of the cave of Plato turns over towards the men after being illuminated, it is necessary to find the contact with the natural reality of the things, “to see” the real texture of the medium, not-deformed by the prism of judgement of imaginary and mental constructions sclerosed. It returns the girl to the king accrediting the thesis that from now on, the sure instinct, spiritualized by the effect surconscient is based on the legality of the bond with the Intention and Nagual, in the darkness of the unknown to support its action.

A whole universe is now to discover: the true adventure starts.

Welcome in the real class Ashe! It is the exit of the gray-dream.

“And Conan brought back the girl of king Osric at it…
“Having achieved its mission it set out again with the adventure with his companions in the west, where Conan had to face many quarrels and many wars. Its name was covered with praise and honor, and a day he became king of his own hands. But this is another history…”

(1) - One thinks of repression in psychoanalysis, means used by the body to comply “force” with the internal tyranny of the super-ego (obligation of compliance with the rules) and of the ego ideal (will to present at the company under its best day). Repression gets for the individual a position life of a quite relative stability, in a state of dissociation of the interior forces.

(2) - One finds here the myth concerning the origin of the Indian castes, where each one being given up in its Dharma under the crook of the Spirit, it naturally creates for itself in social space a system spontaneous castes, flexible and naturalness for the wellbeing of all. It is only as from the moment when one is aware of this representation in a form suitable for Ego [more exactly with exaltée imagination, “the image of oneself”, danger that Me conscious carries it in him], that the system are rigidified, loses its spontaneousness, declining rich keeping the places of being able, etc. The whole bringing us directly to the myth of the golden age of Roy instituted by God. Myth made from now on null and void because of the presence of the image of oneself, perpetual source of errors.

(3) - “When I was child I had a fugitive vision
Corner of the eye
I was turned over, but it had disappeared
I do not manage to give the hand above
The child grew, the dream left
I became agreeably engourdi. “
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Fri 5 Dec - 17:42

(4) - a model to visualize the phenomenon: The hen house of Darboux
The sums of Darboux are used to frame an integral between sums of surfaces of increasingly fine widths to approach the value of this integral. Let us compare the energy structure of the universe with wire of various sections, disordered, billion, an infinity! When these wire are assembled according to an ordered geometrical structure, they form a work, a tapestry (as in Mage), i.e. Tonal, a routine structure where the conscience and energy to be it alive can be spread. We are with the billion junction these wire, disordered or ordered and a tapestry in particular is prevalent, that in which we evolve/move: this tapestry is defined by the physical, energy and mental conscience that we have some. Let us imagine the social structure of the Matrix like this tapestry with wire of 1 cm diameter. It forms a work quasi closed which one can call hen house of Darboux. Hen house because it is in this space that the armour devours us, Darboux because there exist means of connecting itself to a tapestry with the finer sons interpenetrating the matric system and approaching the perfect integral. On this fabric of the hen house whose significance is identical to already evoked metal architecture, we have two possibilities: to dissolve inside while sinking on wire or to resist to find another tapestry.

* Standardized chooses that the only wire and the only real order are this hen house. It thus runs on innumerable wire of the cage, continuing the objects, carrying out its desires and enlarging these acquisitions. While growing bigger, it loses any capacity to see finer wire and is trapped irremediably in the hen house, always giving him the same type of food until the trouble the terrace and than it is given up with the lust, the lucre, drugs or alcohol (for those carrying out the error) or survives poorly while living by procuration with its close relations, being gobergeant of energy to raise a young person being and to lock up it in the hen house with everyone for example.

* The highly-strung person sees finer wire and tries never not to lose this vision. He sees the others enlarging and losing the vision and fears more than very to dislocate itself in the values of the hen house, fearing abêtissement and the destruction. He thus builds a social mask, because it nevertheless is obliged to evolve/move for the moment on wire of the hen house. It is dissociated between what it would like at the bottom and the banal desires which seize it; can it be given up without danger with its impulse or not? It can create desires of ascèts but that will do nothing but rigidify the fluidity of internal flow. It risks at the bottom the petrification on a place of the hen house, seeing the hen house and energy of finer wire, but behind the pane of the conceited ivory tower which it built, unable sufficient mobility, empêtré in its too coercive system of representation.

At the bottom, the goal is to explore wire works 0.5 cm in diameter, but to reach that point, the standardized extraverti will have to lose and refine [as much to say to stop the mode of “vulgar” search for pleasure or “banal” and to acquire a structure interns more finely “advanced”: the extraverti must “be introvertir”] and the nervous introvert will have to flux himself and to give up its system of rigid representation mental défouler and to release themselves in the world such as it is: to acquire experiment on the ground in fine [the introvert must “extravertir himself”].

(5) - the Cave of Plato (extracted from “the Republic” - Book VII)
Now represents to you way that here the state of our nature relative to the instruction and ignorance.
Appear of the men in an underground residence, in the shape of cave, having over all its width an entry
opened with the light; these men are there since their childhood, the enchainés legs and the neck, so that they
can neither move nor to see elsewhere than in front of them, the chains empéchant them to turn the head; the light comes to them
of a fire lit on a height, with far behind them; between fire and the prisoners passes a high road:
imagine that along this road a small wall is built, similar with the partitions that the showmen of marionettes
draw up in front of them and with the top of which they show their wonders.
Appear being maintained along this small wall of the men carrying of the objects of any kind, which exceed the wall,
and of the statuettes of men and animals, out of stone out of wooden and any matter species; naturally among these
carriers, the ones speak and the others are keep silent.
Here, exclaimed Glaucon, a strange table and strange prisoners.

They resemble to us; and initially, do you think that in such a situation they ever saw another thing of them same and their neighbors that the shades projected by fire on the wall of the cave which faces them?

And how, Glaucon observed, if they are forced to remain the motionless head during all their life?
And for isn't the objects which ravel, the same?
If thus they could discuss together you do not think that they would take for real objects the shades
what would they see?
It required there.
And if the wall of the bottom of the prison had an echo, each time one of the carriers would speak, would believe to hear
another thing which the shade which would pass in front of them?
Not, by Zeus!
Undoubtedly of such men will allot reality only to the shades of the objects manufactured. Consider it now
who will arrive to them naturally if they are delivered their chains and that one cures them of their ignorance. That one
detach one of these prisoners, that one forces it to be drawn up immediately, to turn the neck, to go, with raising them
eyes towards the light: by making all these movements, it will suffer and the dazzling will prevent it from distinguishing these
objects of which a few moments ago it saw the shades. What you thus believe that it will answer if somebody comes to him to say that it does not have
considering hitherto that vain phantoms, but that now, more close to reality and turned towards more real objects,
it sees just? If, finally, in him montarnt each thing which passes, one obliges it through questions, to say
is what it? You do not think that it will be embarrassed, and that the shades which it saw a few moments ago will paraitront to him
truer than the objects than one shows him now?
And if one forces it to even look at the light it, won't its eyes be wounded? It will not flee the sight of it
to turn over to the things which it can look at, and will not believe it that these last are really more distinct
what those which one shows him?


And if it is torn off his cave by force, that one makes him climb the hard and escarpée rise, and that it is not released
not before to have trainé it until the light of the sun, it will not suffer highly, and it will not complain
these violences? And when it arrives at the light, will be able it, the eyes very dazzled by its glare, to distinguish one
only things that now we do call true?

It will not be able it, at least as of the access.

It will have I usually think need to see the objects of the higher area. Initially, these will be the shades that it
will distinguish most easily, then the images of the men and other objects which reflect themselves in water,
then objects themselves. After celà, it will be able, facing the clearness of the stars and the moon, to contemplate more
easily during the night celestial bodies and sky him even, that during the day sun and its light.
At the end I imagine, it will be the sun - not its vain images reflected in water or in some other place -
but sun itself in its true place, which it will be able to see and to contemplate such as it is.

After celà, it will come from there to conclude about the sun, that it is him which makes the seasons and the years, which controls
all in the visible world, and which, in a certain manner is the cause of all that it saw with his/her companions
in the cave. However thus, remembering its first residence, wisdom that one professes there, and those which
were his/her companions of captivity, you do not believe that it will be delighted by the change and will feel sorry for the latter?

If, certainly.

And if they decreed between them praises and honors, if they had rewards for that which seized
the eye the sharpest passage of the shades, which remembered best those which had habit to come the first
or the last, or to go together, and which by there was most skilful to guess their appearance, think you that
our man was jealous of these distinctions, and that it carried desire to those which, among the prisoners, are honoured and
powerful? Or like this hero of Homère, did not prefer it thousand times to be only a one servant of plough, with
service of a poor ploughman, and to suffer all in the world rather than to return to its old illusions of living
as it lived?

I am of your opinion, known as Glaucon, it will préfèrera all to suffer rather than living in this way there.

Still imagine that this man goes down again in the cave and will sit down in his old place: it will not have
eyes plugged by darkness while coming abruptly from the full sun? And if it is necessary for him to enter again in
copétition, to judge these shades, with the prisoners who did not leave their chains, in the moment when its
sight is still confused and before its eyes did not recover (but habituation with the darkness will require one
rather long time), will not prepare it to laugh with its costs, and they will not say that having gone up there, it returned from there
with the ruined sight, so that it isn't the sorrow to even try to go up there? And if somebody tries to untie them
and to lead them in top, and that they can hold it in their hands and kill, won't they kill it?

Without any doubt.

Now, my dear Glaucon, it is necessary point by point to apply this image so that we mentioned above,
to compare the world which discovers us the sight with the stay of the prison and the light of the fire which lights it, with
power of the sun. As for the rise in the higher area and with the contemplation of its objects, if you
as the rise of the heart towards the understandable place, you regard will not be mistaken on my thought, since as well you wish to know it. God knows if it is true. For me, such is my opinion: in the understandable world, the idea of the good is perceived the last and with sorrow, but one cannot perceive it without concluding that it is the cause of all that there is of right and beautiful in all things; that it has, in the visible world, generated the light and the sovereign of the light; that in the understandable world, it is itself which is sovereign and exempts the truth and the intelligence; and that it should be seen to act with wisdom in the private life and the public life.

I share your opinion, as much as I it then.

Eh well! divide there still on this point, and does not astonish you only those which rose with these heights do not want
to deal more with the human businesses, and that their hearts unceasingly aspire to remain up there. But what, think
you that it is astonishing that a man who passes from divine contemplations to the poor wretches human things has
bad grace and appears completely ridiculous, when, having still the disturbed sight and not being sufficiently
accustomed with surrounding darkness, it is obliged to enter in argument, in front of the courts or elsewhere, on
shades of justice or on the images which project these shades, and to fight interpretations that give some
those which never saw justice it even ......

(6) - a vision of the myth of the fall of the paradise between Diel and Castaneda:

The sacrifice of the pure virgin to the snake is still a vision of the fall of the paradise of the Christians, a repetition of the myth: satanic vanity, in Eve incentive to make eat in Adam the fruit of the tree of knowledge, makes plunge the man out of the paradise of the spontaneousness of the “quiet knowledge” of Castaneda and the met in a space where it is found dissociated between his mental and its actions. It thinks and car-is represented in the world, separate of him. This terrible punishment benefits the vanity, which nourishes interminable stagnant hair-splittings of our mental thinking (must I do this? or that? I should never have said that to him, it has to be upset, I will invite to excuse me. Oh, it had only with step to annoy me etc.). The couples identified by Diel of sentimentality-charge and vanity-culpability are set up and energy resulting from these complexes of self-sufficiency benefits the snake, in Thulsa doom the predator. If one examines the problem with more close, one realizes that the Snake is the stagnant part, the complex of representation that we form for ourself, our identity. The problem is that this identity fits in the flesh, the physique, the structure and the form. However, at the time of the upward movement requiring the metamorphosis of the forms and the structures, the most savage opposition lies precisely in this design which we have of us, there pouring our ego, our vanity, locking the armour of which the roots plunge to deepest of the physique. One could say that it is the old shell of the Hermit-crab which shouts “it is me, why cut down you? ”, or more simply the physiological movement of homeostasis which seeks to again control operations without being disturbed by something “”.
For Diel, by offering the apple (source of exaltation of the desires of terrestrial pleasure), the conceited snake called “you will be the equal one of God”, in other words, “you will have the capacity to choose the sources of terrestrial pleasure of which you want”, but this capacity is a curse, because the desires are not lucidly any more guided by the divine spirit in us, and we overload our choices of existential anguish. Does the apple come from the tree of the knowledge of the good and the evil, a “dualistic” tree, which permanently will make plunge our reflexion in an attitude of the manichéenne type (have I reason? Must I go on the right or on the left? ), proof of our fall of the paradise, and our sinking in the false diagram of mental emotional. It is well the girl (the heart pure, innocent, intuitive, surconsciente, intermediary between Ego and it Oneself) which is sacrificed to the snake.

(7) - It is precisely because it is still upright that Thulsa doom seeks the “secrecy of steel”, in order to fight it with its weapons by pseudo-justifying the guilty and conceited choices in front of a still structured and a little lucid thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Wed 13 Mar - 12:57

Hi Flaming Turd; I'm French.
I remember I read the original article long ago (8 years ago). It was really entertaining and it made me discover Paul Diel's writings.
It was written by a French psychologist; if I remember well his name was Thibaut JAN, working in a suburb of Paris.
Alas, he deleted this webpage some years later; he didn't give publicly a reason but I suppose this was due to the multiple references he made to Castaneda. Indeed, at this time, a French researcher (Ch. Bourseiller) published a book revealing the fallacy of that US guru (in the US, there had been already many criticisms, especially by R. De Mille) and I think the psychologist did not want to tarnish his reputation with that.
Anyway, thanks for posting this English version - I found it while I was looking for traces of the French original - and let me know if you eventually find this latter version.
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Flaming Turd

Number of posts : 4001
Registration date : 2007-08-28

PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Sat 27 Apr - 2:16

Hi Cafaristeir!

I am completely ignorant of the psychologists proffesional ambient on France or USA, even though I am aware a little bit about how it is in Spain and I assume it probably won't be too different. There's a lot of very stinky snobbism, a posing wich of course only hides ignorance and probably even some degree of retardism. The most "academic", illustrated, "high class" proffesionals tend to have a Freudian approach to any subject, and that includes a hate (or maybe better called a "fear" or "intolerance") to anything primitive. Freud was sure humans were idiot psychotic goat-rapers shit-eaters on our original state, and that civilization made us better by repressing what we really are.

They would never be Robert E. Howard fans, you see. Razz

Still that is a very specific part of the proffesional world and only the one wich tend to critizise everything outside their limited and not too intelligent perception of reality. Are these people the "rulers" of the world? Do they have so much power that psychologists with different points of view must shut up to not loose their reputation?


Truth is there are many different approachs to psychology beyond Freud. Freud made awesome discoveries and was very good for psychology for a start, but then there are MANY other psychology approachs wich for a whole century have gone way beyond Freud's prejudgements, inhibitions, and limitations.

Is appreciating Castaneda considered "a shame" on that proffesional world? Honestly, that makes me laugh. Shouldn't mr Ron L Hubbard considered a way bigger shame? Laughing This guy, R. De Mille, belongs to that stupid sect. How much ego do you need to critizice Castaneda when you are a dude who considers "Battelfield Earth" to be based on true facts? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Amazing work about the Milius' movie   Today at 5:55

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