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 What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal

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Thulsa Doom
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PostSubject: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Wed 2 Feb - 14:21

in the first movie.........he never seemed to desire anything other than brainwashing. Did he want to create a type of shadow government using some of his more high ranking deciples like the princess?
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Wulfgar
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Wed 2 Feb - 17:01

It never really was revealed, I suppose. We could go with "world domination". Turning the youth into mindless followers and such.
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Cromulus The Destroyer
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Sun 6 Feb - 3:41

Doom's motives are more apparent in the 1st-3'rd drafts of the script and Stone's Script. In the movie it comes across only that he's a drug dealer, murder pimp and hippy. Conan is genre in story, its a revenge flick and for some reason the final cut of the film wanted Doom's villainy to be straight forward: Murderer, Slaver and Drug dealer. But Conan doesnt care about drugs or right and wrong, since he takes drugs himself, and indulges in all matters of pleasures himself. We're supposed to, as an audience have it resonate that Conan is right and Doom is wrong and that Conan only becomes a hero when at the end when he burns down the temple. His army wasnt really an army in the movie he just had around 26-35 men at any given time, just his personal security guard. And he had no neanderthals or mutants in his serice, except the few savages in the cave which really could have been anything from and inbred retards to just drugged out slaves. The men under the masks are humans, and it appears it ws just some S&M LSD orgy and not the breeding of mutants as in the scripts. The only thing one can understand that he was he instilling brainwashed and drugged controlled assainines everywhere his "towers" and cult spread, primarily this was done through the youth, and he was using the princess to somehow legitimize his claim to shadizar. However if the cut scene of Osric's murder were in include this plot makes no sense, since Osric's guards were actually in league with Doom and his daughter--meaning he already ruled Shadizar and Osric was a puppet on the throne.

As for Doom's search for Steel, it didnt make any sense other than just set Milius ambgious plot and cult of steel. We assume he went to the village to rob them of secret of steel production but this is useless since the Vanir had Iron or steel weapons and they just killed everyone and took only children as slaves. We are left with just the Father's Sword, but this loses its point too since Doom just gave it to Rexor who just so happens to pull it ouve his ass in key scenes for no reason(Fountain and again at the battle of the mounds)and its otherwise forgotten.


Last edited by Cromulus The Destroyer on Mon 7 Feb - 18:33; edited 1 time in total
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Wulfgar
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 7 Feb - 14:14

Sadly, when you get someone like DeLaurentis, who never took the genre seriously, a lot got hacked away, I think. Most of the dialogue was cut out of the script even before shooting, so it's safe to think that key points of the story line was taken away as well.
Prior to the crucifixion, Doom does talk about "evolving" passed the desire of steel, but again, not a lot of depth.
Ah well, the movie is fun for what it is. I am looking forward to the new Conan movie coming out. We'll see how it does.
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Cromulus The Destroyer
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 7 Feb - 18:36

According to Milius, the only part Dino wanted cut was the drunken COnan, because he didnt think Conan looked noble or heroic enough there. Milius pretty much edited the film and according to him, he didnt need to cut out too much. The only real thing Milius wanted back in apparently was the "Moby Dick" scene and the Conan voice over(which the studio heads at Universal didnt like). Milius also mentions something in passing which made me scratch my head, was that he didnt want it "to violent" so the final cut we're supposed to believe was always Milius' vision.
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Wulfgar
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 7 Feb - 19:23

DeLaurentis and his daughter believe that the sword and sorcery genre is not a serious venue and did not like the blood and gore. Actually, what was on screen was fought for! DeLaurentis did not feel that Schwarzenegger's accent would be understood, and felt that he was more of a visual prop than an actor. The script Milius worked with was a very radical re write from Oliver Stone's work, in which Conan had many lines and was a more in depth character. Since it was not seen by the Dino and his daughter as serious work, they felt it did not warrant more than what we saw. The sequel was even more watered down and Milius and crew got out. Later on, Raphaella did Kull, and was actually proud of the castrating they did with the hero.
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Cromulus The Destroyer
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 7 Feb - 20:35

Dino being unsure of Arnold's accent was during pre-production, and Milius was interested in other actors other than Arnold for the role of Conan on his own as well so I dont believe casting Arnold was on his high priority list likely namely because that Arnold was signed to the project WAY back in 1976 or 77 well before Milius came on board. And Arnold's movies prior to Conan were junk and his accent terrible--he needed alotve couching and in Conan he hardly had any dialogue which was a major shortcoming of the film.
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Flaming Turd
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Thu 10 Feb - 23:05

I think Corumulus explained it quite well, so I'll just throw my explanation hoping to clarify it a little more.

Doom is a sort of vampiric guy, with inmense hunger for power and knowledge for egotistic purposes (that means, to live longer). He has been searching for power to endure his life for almost a thousand years, in diverse forms. When the movie starts, we see how he is searching for power in the form of steel -steel is considered "sacred" because only a few knows how to make it, therefore the ones who can make steel or own it are considered as powerful as gods-. He also sells slaves and probably some other stuff from the villages he destroys and achieves a fortune. When he has achieved enough steel and money he creates an army armed with the steel, and the mythic power of the steel joined to the fact that those weapons are stronger than iron makes him to be very feared and respected. Then he creates that "Cult of Set" building towers on several cities, and he is allowed to do it cause of his steel army, and cause he also seems to have a sort of connection with ancient, old reptilian spirits or gods. So the rulers fear him, and let him exist. And he becomes more and more famous and young people who hate their parents join him attracted by his power. He brainwashes them and reinforces their hate to their parents. His plan is manipulate the minds of every young person in the world to make them assassinate their parents. Then, there will be a world where only exists people who adore him like a god. He will fuck them and feed on their flesh when he needs to. He would also feed the "snake gods" with their flesh in ritual sacrifice too once in a while, to endure his life -probably the human sacrifices is what makes him to live so long-.

So, yeah, his intention is to "feed" on people, in many levels, metaphorically and also literally. He is an egotistic parasite. He doesn't wanna die, therefore he kills and eats others.
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Wulfgar
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 14 Feb - 16:09

That's an amazingly insightful perspective. I like it! I suppose it's a good thing DVDs exist and VHS before them so we can watch these over and over and get those perspectives. I long for the day that a movie can, once again, convey those sorts of things the first time we see them.
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Flaming Turd
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Sat 26 Feb - 1:50

Wulfgar wrote:
I long for the day that a movie can, once again, convey those sorts of things the first time we see them.

We are a whole hungry tribe there.
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Wulfgar
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Tue 8 Mar - 15:04

It's become so important to pack as much action as possible into a movie, that the story is irrelevant. It might as well be porn, just keep fast forwarding till you get to bump 'n" hump.

Movie companies feel that if it's a sword and sorcery flick, obviously there is a low brain pan. Trouble is, the public is so dumbed down, they actually bitch when there is more than ten minutes without something blowing up.

Look at Clash of the Titans (remake). Where the hell was the myth? Talk just long enough to get to another fight. The effects were great, but you know what? Give me the original. At least it mattered what actors said.
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Flaming Turd
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 14 Mar - 7:59

Couldn't expose it better.

Dumbed down, yes, but why? I don't think the audience is asking for that. Do they really bitch when some story is told? Really? I don't know, since good stories and well told plots are universally appealing and absorving. Thing is you need to tell them right, to make audience follow what's happening. Audience turn the brain off when they go to the cinema so they simply don't get it when things are happening behind the surface so they get bored. If they manage to get the story they will surely appreciate it. Without effort.

But the big big guilty people are producers. I cannot say how much I hate that breed of parasites. They work controlled by FEAR. They do live in a constant FEAR and therefore make choices driven by fear. Fear to loose money and obsession to assure a commercial success. So they won't hire good writters cause they might do something too "weird" wich could be a failure. And they won't hire good conceptual artists for the same reason, they don't want anything original, they want things to look pretty similar to other previous wich were succesful, to assure a limited succes again. They are feeding on rooting corpses until there's no more corrupted flesh there so they fly to the next one. They will repeat formulas wich are dead for decades, and exploite storylines that even a 4 year old kid could writte, to assure people won't complain on not getting what's going on. They cover the retard-plot with a videogame aesthethic to assure it will appeal to the eyes of the "next gen" audience, and send the shit out. If there's enough CGI action scenes then nobody will complain, they will probably say "well, wasn't a classic but was funny for a while", and that's all they need.

And if that's not enough, producers also have a huge sense of shame cause they have absolutely no creative talent at all. So they are all the time telling to the screenwritter or the director what to do with their own job, telling to change things or rewrite things or eliminate or add things without any reason. Simply to "feel" they are part of the creative process and feel they participated on the making. When the only thing these bunch of arseholes serve is nothing but finding money. They are like pigs, but they want to look like gods. They are probably the most disgusting creature in this motherfucking planet.

Back to us, who is what really matters: we don't have a responsibility as audience, we haven't been tought to have one. We are sheeps. We eat what they throw us. We don't know what we want. We are open to like things for the "labelling" on it, even before the movie exist. If it's "Star Wars" then I'll like it, no matter if it's a 2 hour movie of George Lucas hairy asshole with a Johgn Williams soundtrack. And so. Movies are sold as "by the director who made a previous succesful movie!!!!" and so. Or by the actor/s who perform on it. Who gives a fuck about the plot. Soon movies won't even have a title, they will simply be sold as "The next movie of Spielberg", and people will go to watch it even if it's a 2 hours shot of Spielberg's anus. Some important critics even will be hired to invent retarded pseudointellectual theories about that new Lucas' and Spielberg's themathic on their new flicks, to support the money this new crap is making.


It's fashion. We go where the fashion dictates. Even if it's crap. And the point is we all know this is crap -cause it is, no doubt about it at all. But we just don't know what to do. We haven't been taught to have a criteria. That's what those other maggots called "movie critics" exist, to tell us what is good and what is not. This is a world for sheeps.
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CROM !!!
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Mon 14 Mar - 19:24

This News will make you happy then...Clash Of The Titans is getting a sequel !!!
Wrath Of THe Titans...even Sam Worthington was surprised.
But what does he care as long as he gets paid?
I remember him saying about the first one that it is just a popcorn movie,nothing serious...at least he admitted it.
He's been in 3 big popcorn munchies now,so he's found his niche'...
No doubt sequels will follow & countless 3D cinema extravaganza's...
Here's a article about the new one & his thoughts...

"Sam Worthington Admits Clash of the Titans Sucked"
Quote:
"I just think we can improve on it. I think the first one, we kind of let down some people. And yeah, I totally agree. The only point of doing a sequel is either the audience demands it or you believe you can better the first one. What we're setting out to do with this one -- the writers and the director and myself -- is improve. I think I can act f***ing better, to be honest ... Just take all the notes from people that I have been reading about on the 'net and give them a movie they f***ing want. This one I want to kind of try to satisfy a lot more people."

"I've always said you make movies for an audience, that's who you make movies for. If the audience is speaking, it's like the old gladiator thing, they give us the thumbs up/thumbs down, you want to stay alive in that coliseum as long as you can."

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Flaming Turd
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Wed 16 Mar - 5:25

CROM !!! wrote:

"I've always said you make movies for an audience, that's who you make movies for."

puker

Never trust anybody who says that.

First, because people who tries to satisfy everybody are 1) delusional, 2) coward, 3) unfocused, 4) unoriginal, and 5) boring.

Second, because you make movies for yourlsef, hoping audiences will like them too. Do you think Beethoven made his music thinking on the fucking audience? People who do stuff thinking on the audience are fast-food makers.

Who gives a fuck what audiences want? Audiences are sheeps. Point is, what kind of movie YOU wanna do, asshole? If you don't know what you want to do, then it's normal every damn movie today LOOKS IDENTICAL. It doesn't matter who signed the crap, if in the end it was made following the dictates of what a massified audience thinks they want.
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Wulfgar
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Wed 16 Mar - 19:36

I agree. A sequel? OK. Well, CotT has a script that is a few thousand years old. Written out. Plot lines, scripts a cast, everything, and they couldn't follow it. They are far from the first. So now, we'll just make a Perseus story up, because they'll do much better.

The only time you should be thinking about the masses when you are creating is when you are trying to find a cure for something. For Music, Art, Film, Literature, you work from your mind and heart. If it's good, folks will come around and love it. I have a book that was signed by it's original owner in 1897. It's "The White Company" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (An excellent read, I highly recommend it and "Sir Nigel", a prequel.) 114 years later and people are still buying his books. Do you really think Doyle was looking at a world market when he wrote his !00 Year's War book or Sherlock Holmes?

Boy bands, Brittney Spears, and American Idol is what you get when you create for the masses. Oh yea, and Conan the Destroyer, Star wars prequels, and Clash of the Titans
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CROM !!!
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Thu 17 Mar - 0:25

The sad thing is as you get older you tend to notice how things you remember from your childhood seem to come back in fashion or be re-hashed & re-done...makes you feel old doesn't it?
Be it Music or Films,etc...
When i was younger i remember my Dad saying how the music i liked was a rip off of some tune he liked back in the day.
Thought he was full of $hit at the time but it's true...
But it's another thing when they re-make films that are timeless classic's & still hold their own today.
If it ain't broke...don't fix it !!!...simple.
Pi$$es me off when i see classic "Harryhausen" turned into a popcorn date-movie flick.
Cashing in on the teeny-bopper audiences who don't remember the Originals.
I know it's just to make money,but it steals the magic.
The New version of 'Clash Of the Titans' hardly featured Medusa !!!
No build up,no tension...just all C.G.I. Bull$hit !!!
Pity they can't be more original & stop re-making films that don't warrant that treatment.
Why the fuck can't they just go watch the original "Harryhausen" on dvd ???
No need for all this C.G.I Avatar,3-D Bollocks.
Bring back Stop Motion Animation !!!
The effects were better when it was guys in suits,it's great the tricks that can be achieved today...
But everything in moderation i say.
Just hope this new Conan film is better than i expect...which is an episode of Xenia & Hercules !!!
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axerules
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Sat 26 Mar - 3:32

In the USA, the main customers for movies are kids. So Hollyweird producers don't want to shock and for the most part will finance movies aimed at pre-teens. And since they think that kids are idiots, they produce idiotic shit.


Wulfgar wrote:
For Music, Art, Film, Literature, you work from your mind and heart. If it's good, folks will come around and love it. I have a book that was signed by it's original owner in 1897. It's "The White Company" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (An excellent read, I highly recommend it and "Sir Nigel", a prequel.) 114 years later and people are still buying his books. Do you really think Doyle was looking at a world market when he wrote his !00 Year's War book or Sherlock Holmes?
I'm a fan of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. He was a great writer...but the main reason he wrote Sherlock Holmes stories was the money. His true interest was historical fiction. He wrote once that Sherlock Holmes took to much of his time which should be used for his "better"/"important" works, his historical novels (I'm paraphrasing). He spent months of researches before starting to write one historical novel, while he penned some SH yarns very hastily. But the public loved Holmes, so he had to produce more Sherlock Holmes. He even tried to kill him in "The Final Problem" to get rid of him, but later he resurrected him because of popular demand.
I'm fond of his historicals. By the way, Robert E. Howard was a fan of Sir AC Doyle.



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Flaming Turd
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Fri 1 Apr - 17:25

axerules wrote:
In the USA, the main customers for movies are kids. So Hollyweird producers don't want to shock and for the most part will finance movies aimed at pre-teens. And since they think that kids are idiots, they produce idiotic shit.

Seems to be the mechanism. I don't know if all the producers really think audience are idiots (even though, sadly, I am sure some producers do think that way) but what I know this gigantic problem was assured when producers started doing that crappy "audience tests" to stablish what should and shouldn't be on movies. They screened movies and then got thousands of filled tests and then obtained an average result. AN AVERAGE RESULT!!! This means they obtained a type of movie wich had elements wich would satisfy everybody, but what about the picture as a whole? Cause in the end what you have is a type of movie wich, as a whole, NOBODY LIKES!

An average result is the reason why movies are all the same, has all the same repetitive elements and aesthethics, are all bland and weak on the plot and character developement, and seem to be made by the very same creators. No author, no personal points of view, no implication...

Let's make movies following a "formula of assured success". Let's make Big Macs.

foufou
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CROM !!!
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PostSubject: Re: What exacley was Thulsa Doom's goal   Fri 1 Apr - 23:27

Can i get fries with that ???
Wink
...I don't get why they do "Audience testing"
To be all about making money & aiming at the mindless herds of sheep with teen rom-coms is all bullshit.
I think any audience who goes to the cinema & makes whooping noises,shouts out trying to be funny,screams & cums in their pants are total stupid fucks...
Why pay all that money to go in & not even watch & concentrate on the film ???
Nothing worse than some prick talking on their cell-phone,or munching pop-corn in your ear & kicking your frigging seat !!!
If i pay to watch a film,i do just that...& i don't make any noise or get too excited...
The only way anyone would know if i liked it was when i'm driving home & talking about it.
I even watch the credits to get my money's worth
(just in case there's a surprise end,like in He-Man when Skeletor popped up again at end,or Friday the 13th when Jason jumps out onto boat,my friend saw this at the cinema & left before that part even happened !!!)
Plus,these days it's cheaper to wait for the dvd anyway...
If your mind is switched off & you're in the brainless mood,sometimes the shitty films are a bit of fun.
Every now & then there's a film that resonates with you...that has some deeper meaning.
I guess without the crap films it would be harder to differentiate from the good ones.
It's good when there are directors who aren't all about money or their own ego,but who want to make classic films.
It's great when you feel a connection with a certain film...
& these are the moments that can make films seem 'almost' magic.
Conan
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