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 Guess at total Missing Material

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Ronster
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Ronster

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Registration date : 2019-01-17

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PostSubject: Guess at total Missing Material   Guess at total Missing Material EmptyWed 3 Jul - 17:58

In terms of the way deleted and alternative content works I wish to run through the film and estimation of how much is actually missing. you will have to open the link in a new tab to follow my descriptions on the points.

Conan Narration - Concerning the Shot used in Conan the Destroyer taken from Conan the Barbarian footage this does not work over the Mako Narration entirely. Although we have a Black screen for the Narration A snippet of this shot would have been earmarked but assume if there was footage it was World Building and scenery or matte paintings Setting up Hyboria. No time difference swap black screen for footage. It would have also contained Crashing Waves Footage from "Big Wednesday" I imagine.



Apparently It was meant to be a map of Europe Africa and Asia but then it would dissolve into a map of Hyboria…

Riddle of Steel - Nothing Missing

Riders of Doom - Yes Conan’s Mother Kills a soldier 4-5 seconds Nothing else is really missing... Twitching Head shot would mean no slow motion Decapitation... It's very well done the way it is in the final movie.

Wheel of Pain - Cuts but Nothing Missing. Miniature shot was axed.

Pitfight - Cuts but purposeful montage / Alternate Montage is possible either way it’s brief.

Enslaved - Extended Montage again It’s Brief momments nothing much.

Earthquake - Nothing Missing (Alternative path to freedom possible)

The Thing in the Crypt - Nothing Missing

Lizard on a stick - Cut but ultimately not needed.

Mammoth Sighting - Nothing Missing but funny

Pickpocket - Short Snippet yes Missing scene showing lawlessness

The procession - Yes Missing Scene in connection with the lawless world comes a procession showing a different way of life although under the notion of peace is something more sinister. The scene above and this one is all part of the same sequence.

Tower of the Serpent - Yes Missing Scenes in Garden and tower ascent

The Beast with 3 eyes - The So called Beast with 3 eyes is the same type of masked Thug that stirs the human soup pot in the orgy chamber except that guy had his ears chopped off or missing. If he was up the top of the tower it was a quick kill But very doubtful… Valeria takes jewels from the wall yes small deleted scene here.

The Sacrificial Pit - It is not a Version A or Version B so much as the Flashback was over explained or over extended Possibly. Either Losing the shot of James Earl Jones or the Symbol at the village, when the Flashback is condense… This allows Subotai to come down the tunnel Point at the snake warning Conan; Conan turns as the snake lunges. The Audio Mix also reflects the sequence that the snake lunges with a hiss this then continues on to Conan Stabbing the snake. Alternative footage and scene order no time difference.

Love yurt - Small cuts missing showing each other there Slave collar scars potential Flash back of Valeria pit fighting here. This established what they had in common they came from the same sort of place.

King Ozric - Yes shortened Meeting with Max Von Sydow Kings Death is Missing and Snake cult Priest asking for Daughters Hand in Marriage. Also Not mentioned The Minature of King Ozrics Wooden Castle was not Shown in an establishing shot.



Back Home - Nothing Missing

Mountain of Power - Yes James Earl Jones Speech shortened

Tortured - Yes Shortened (But I got the gist…)

Fangs of the Serpent - Yes Missing Scene

Tree of Woe - Nothing really missing Comedy cut from tree of Woe for good reason

The Orgy Chamber - I am not so sure that there is So much Time Missing although Alternative Material is at play here (Censorship). Particularly the shot Thogrimm looking in confusion after the Big Pillar falls lingers far too long this replaces Subotai firing an arrow and Conan taking the princess on his shoulders.

The Princess - Cuts Shortened scene perhaps stronger for it? This touches on the marriage plot between Thulsa Doom and Yasminia. This was redundant as it would have been covered in the Death of King Ozric Deleted scene.

Moby Dick Scene - I think it should have remained cut

Battle of the Mounds - I have looked into this and a video will follow soon on various editing errors and cuts.

Finale - Although the article does not mention there is another Guard killed by Conan before He faces off against Thulsa Doom atop the temple other than that possible alternative material that was more graphic…

Epilogue - Nothing is Missing

In Summary as far as story goes the marriage sub plot between Thulsa Doom and Princess Yasmina was removed aswell as Valerias pit fighting Slave History.

In Terms of Censorship cuts We are looking at about +25-30 seconds tops without considering Conans torture as most will fall into alternate (cover) shots with a couple of exception.

Approximation of Full uncut Version

Shot of Map over opening Narration = 0 seconds
Shot of Conan over opening Narration = 0 seconds
Shot of Moonset (Reddish) after The Riddle of Steel Sequence (Dawn) = 3 seconds
Conan’s Mother Protects Young Conan Killing a Soldier after the main Battle = 5 seconds
Earthquake (Alternative Freedom Sequence) = 0 seconds
Extra Dialogue wolfwitch = 40 seconds
Extra Dialogue Between Subotai and Conan (Exchange of Professions) = 30 seconds
Shadazir Introduction Short Dialogue (city of thieves) Long Shot Matte Painting Missing (Civilization) = 0 seconds
Thief tries to steal Conan sword arm chopped off and the snake cult procession = 90 Seconds
Unused music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sADcQ2bHC3Y
Water Wheel set on Cliff Top Missing “You know what’s in there?” = 10 Seconds
Tower of Set Gardens and ascent footage missing Valeria introduces herself = 25 Seconds (unused music)
Valeria Prizes a Jewel from the Wall = 7 Second
Flash Back of THulsa Doom Condensed allowing Extra footage of Subotai to warn Conan and the snake to Lunge (Matching the sound mix) = 0 seconds
Renting tHe Yurt and Sharing their past (Pitfighter Slave scars) = 20 Seconds
Miniature of King Osrics Castle Day and and Extended Dialogue in the Hall of the King Dawn at Shadazir ditance Matte = 20 Seconds
Extended Thulsa Doom Speech at the mountain of Power = 60 seconds
Fangs of the serpent Suicide = 5 seconds
King Osrics Castle Night Minature and Rexor asks for Princess Hand for Thulsa Doom leading to King Osrics Death = 60 Seconds
Exrta Dialogue after so this is Paradise? Conan “What now?” Subotai “Let’s Watch a while they will tire” Replaces a couple James Earl Jones shots. = 0 seconds
After great Pillar falls alternative footage of Conan taking the princess Subotai with his Bow = 0 seconds
Replacing Moby Dick scene - Wizard asks “you plan to stay here?” Conan “until our Guests arrive” Wizard “Many Battles were fought here. The grass and Corn grow high because the land has drank so much blood.” = 9 seconds
Wizard Run’s off to Hide = 4 seconds
Numerous cuts to the Battle = 5 seconds
Extra Guard Taken out at Thulsa Dooms Palace and Thulsa Dooms Body rolls down the steps. = 5 seconds
Uncut +7 minutes 36 seconds approx

In terms of some other shortening this is natural aside from (James Earl Jones) Thulsa Doom Speech and the Tower of Set Gardens and ascent and Death of King Ozric. The Procession and Pickpocket scene were I would imagine the point of realization that they would assault the Tower of Set, as they were high as kites and that does not tally up so the conscious decision was made upon a hilltop to assault the tower.

So all in all I would imagine it’s falling short of a uncut version by about 7 minutes approximately.

Whilst Looking at the Valeria’s Funeral Pyre scene I noticed that the music repeated itself awkwardly… As I looked into it further I also noticed that there was missing Narration by Mako the Wizard that ended up in Conan the Destroyer. So I put this rough Clip together although I think the footage is perhaps in the wrong order as per the original scene orders may need a shuffle the Dissolve is essentially missing (or it might not be?). The important note is that the Jewel (Eye of the Serpent) Flash and then the Pyre Erupt were simultaneous and this connection was lost slightly in editing due to the botched audio and the missing Dissolve.

Video here of Fix to Pyre scene.

https://vimeo.com/264034805

Anyway I thought fans might find this small clip interesting. Interestingly at the end Conan has the Torch back in his Hand and throws it on the ground again on the last shot of the sequence… Basically what I think is that I got it slightly wrong but the narration is correct and it does make very clear a few editing errors on this part. Needs further inspection for correct scene order sound effects, continuity and so on. I imagine the last shot should be the Shot of the Pyre in the sequence so the last shot currently and magic eruption might come earlier? Wait a bit on this one. I thought it was important as “Valeria” is never mentioned in name in the film apart from this missing narration by Mako.

The Battle of the mounds battle will follow and that if far more interesting stay tuned for the analysis. The only Hope for a Further re-cutting of the Film would ultimately come to rest on Scwarzenegger as John Milius is Ill and it’s a shame further time was not invested into a full uncut version.

https://vimeo.com/264434918

It was chopped up a bit and re-arranged for the Censorship... Harder to stay intact than the Orgy.

The Orgy Extended the Wrestler with the Hammer looking after the Great Pillar falls is the obvious cover shot... We Linger far too long on two takes of his expression. Again many shots of James Earl Jones is again covering.

I hope you appreciate it as a kind of rough framework guess.

I did not consider the witches return or any extra torture to Conan before Riddle of Steel...

Keep up the good work on here
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PostSubject: Re: Guess at total Missing Material   Guess at total Missing Material EmptyThu 4 Jul - 3:56

Guess at total Missing Material Imwx7k
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PostSubject: Witches Return?   Guess at total Missing Material EmptyFri 5 Jul - 19:10

I was looking for the reason or purpose for why the witch was set to return and have further scenes....

The only reason I could think the Witch would return would be to tip Subotai off to the location of Conan on the Tree of Woe and also to tell him to take him to the Wizard. This part is obviously unexplained and it does carry some weight that her return would of been for this purpose to fulfil the vision and prophecy she spoke of.

There is also the case of the Wolf Witch Sex scene has missing music of Drums reaching a crescendo but it requires the extra dialogue for the music cue to work fully but I would think it would enhance the scene greatly. This is possibly a major enhancement. A music Edit would be possible also.

The last thing I would like to touch on is the extra dialogue explaining the neandathal beasts in Thulsa Dooms Palace just before the Orgy scene. I feel this extra dialogue explaining canibalism could have simply been spoken over some of the POV shots looking down on the while they hide on the ledge above. So no extra time here. But it's not needed in my opinion.

Last but not least I forgot the extra dialogue as James Earl Jones speaks with Thogrimm and Rexor after the Orgy Battle and Escape... So I will revise up to 8 minutes approximately final Guess or approximation. With this and the Wolf Witch Extra Scene.

That would make the theatrical release Shortened by 10 minutes which sound pretty normal but alternate edits would also mean more content within the film overall.

I would Really hope this stuff can released one day if it is available some things they are missing Audio for but some things they are not I would imagine.

Thanks again and let's hope perhaps Arnold and Raffaella De Laurentiis could sort this out for the fans one day go through the Reels there is so much star quality of this film it is amazing but very much an unsung masterpiece of cinema for it's script acting cinematography music score and special effects many of which we have still never seen and it deserves to be Seen by a new generation.

Guess at total Missing Material Conancop

I would Rather Arnold did this than make another Conan Film as much as I like his films. I struggle to think of a film that could be as exciting a restoration as Conan but it's up there with the likes of American Werewolf in London as having notorious missing material and if it could be finally put right it would be a stronger film for it but it's far from weak it would be a major enhancement to something already great but at least we got the better ending.

EDIT

Guess at total Missing Material Dibujo-37

This article suggests Conan's Mother slays the Pictish Warrior (Tattooed Man who draws his sword whilst young Conan is caught in the Open.... His Mother does react to seeing him in Danger)

I have a feeling this one is Legit and it explains the Blood on the sword and it makes perfect sense as he vanishes after he draws his sword and Conan's Mother is outside the village looking on in Horror after saving her son caught out in the open. The Script mentions her Defeating a Horse back rider also....

Well Done Flaming Turd that is another piece of the Puzzle.

Guess at total Missing Material Pitfight02

I have a hunch this would have been accompanied with the narration "Conan's victories could not easily be counted" The chained costume and cart may have been him on display preceeding this fight. The Arena looks more like a top tier Arena where the stakes were high. He won the prize for being taught by the War masters with this fight? Alternatively it comes directly before the War Yurt... one of the captains says "My greatest fear is my son will never understand me..." Then it's almost as if the scene totally changes and we hear "HA! We have won again!" I assume there was a Chained Conan version of this scene alternate take. But the my greatest fear line I think would be omitted and in this version you see a part of a fight followed by the War Yurt starting with "Ha! we won again!" possibly.

Just realized It seems the Earthquake scene happens in the same place as where Conan is bred to the finest Stock of women...That same Cell in the East. So it is all above ground not underground as the comic would have you believe. But Red hair might be falling through a Fissure in the ground on the surface or a rock on him? Or simply is Free... This might be shorter than the version where Red Hair let's him go by free will. It's also possible the Cell Breaks open and Conan does not know what to do and does not run and Red hair decides it was fate the cage broke and still let's him go of free will meaning it's a short extension....

After the Procession scene Subotai and Conan Talk... Some Ron Cobb Set Designs might give us an idea what this area was to look like.... Scene 136.

Guess at total Missing Material CA380-on-Sun_God_Temple-conan

Note the House of Pleasure they walk through an area where Whores Beckon Hags Beg and Hawkers Snarl. It's a bunch of Gags apart from the procession.

Subotai - They are fools for religion. one year snakes, the next year dogs; either way it's  always Doom Doom...

There is more Dialogue but this could be a part of the street they take after the procession assuming Subotai points out the shrine of the Dog as they talk about the snake cult.

Also of note the Red Symbols painted on Conans face by the wizard is the Indahlo man Symbol of Almeria provice in Spain. It's a local Spanish heritage symbol.

When Gerry Lopez in offered Stygion and says "This had better not be Haga" his Lips do not move there is a still frame of the tower inserted also which seems off...

Also Possibly the Line said by Subotai "Your too big to be a thief" also seems off somehow when Conan Punches the Camel. Seems like we are missing close ups of Gerry Lopez basically.

Lizard on a stick replaces the shot of them Running I feel... Probably No music. The Journey to Shadazir would be extended with the music. Alcazabar and Fort Condor would be either two cities or made to feel like the same place?

Was we meant to see the Elephant Dung before the line "How does the wind ever get in here?" feels like a good improv Gag to me and what it is referring to if you saw the Dung it would make sense....

Essentially what you must remember is that when something is changed or edited differently you don't always gain any extra time apart from whole cut sections. If you add something back it may mean you lose something else. So apart from whole discarded sections of plot you may find that you simply gain something different in it's place that may or may not be spectacular or unspectacular but it will be different. The Cut sections amount to 10 minutes and most everything else like missing shots will be simply alternate.
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