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 Hyborian world historical parallels

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The Last Atlantean
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PostSubject: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 8:25

The world of REH,the Hyborian Age,a cosmos of shining kingdoms,could have had certain historical parallels in Japan's Sengoku era (era of the warring states/the country at war),or even in post-Alexandrian,Hellenistic times,with warring states again fighting for supremacy and in the area especially around the state of the Seleukids,and incorporate ancient greek,bactrian,indian and even scythian cultural aspects....ehm,sassanid also.
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Chrysagon
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 8:46

Well, in fact Howard melted a lot of many ancient cultures to create his Hyborian Age. Using references to Ancent Egypt for Stygia, for example, helps the reader to recreate a whole world on its own without wasting time explaining a whole fantasy world to the reader. The short stories were published in pulps, and were supposed to 'hook' the reader instantly.
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The Last Atlantean
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 9:08

Correct,but my thinking was like,not based on what REH fused his pseudo-world history with,but if that galaxy of kingdoms could sort of be found in ancient history.Hellenistic times are full of ANCIENT WORLD color and are brimming with incident (larger than life depictions of heroic and brutal leader duels,great sieges and bloody warfare)not quite unlike the wars between the hyborian states.The movie can also be the 5th cent Migration era,up to the medieval Sung dynasty of China (remember the philosophy?)
The theme of steel from the film I think is more reminiscent of the viking age,8th to 10th cents.
Personally I am more involved in the greek late bronze age (1600-1100 B.C),that's my cup of tea....back then these Achaean warriors were in fact dressed as barbarian warriors,carrying long and thick bronze swords with oftentimes decorated middlelines(with griffins,axe motifs etc)and wearing horned and plumed helmets (unlike the vikings who seemingly had helms sans horns -victorian age misinterpretation!);mythical people like Achilles,a stereotypical mycenaean warlord is depicted in the Iliad as wearing a 4-horned helmet during the duel with Hector and the archaeological record from the real epoch comes to verify such an extravagant and powerful look for these early greeks....fantastically richly decorated bronze swords too,quite Conan-like in terms of size(and a few times even bigger than an atlantean).
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Chrysagon
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 17:32

Indeed, Late Bronze Age (with its Linear B writting deciphered) may have been also an inspiration for Cobb and Stout, as many other eras.
Howard was very fond of history, and we can find many parallels between his hyborian age and Antiquity, Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages.
I am also very fond for Late Bronze Age in Greece because I studied it at the University and also had the chance to visit some important sites of this period in 2003.
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Cromulus The Destroyer
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 18:38

Most of the CONAN tales seemingly took place in the Late Roman times, primarily Western Roman Empire, and then fused with late middle Ages and doses of the Classical period. Lots of times this is what annoyed me when reading Howard's pulps. Conan even manages to become a Barbary pirate and fight Zulu warriors and even Aztecs. Please dont get me started on Kozaks and Fatimid style warriors either.Laughing

The stories I liked best were the more primordial and ambiguous ones, which obviously inspired by the Mediterranean Bronze Age and stories of Atlantis the Antediluvian World.

Milius basically did the same, used fusions of history and various myths plucked from everywhere like Howard, but rather than Conan being a Gael from Texas, became a Teutonic warrior of the Steppe. Even the environment was strange probably due to budget but I think more obviously due to personal taste, Milius made the story more settled in Viking, Mongol and Muslim dominated Eurasia(think Russia & the Crimea ect).

*At one point also in the commentary, that area in Spain chosen to be Vanaheim(?) with the Wheel of Pain and gladiator pits, reminded Milius of Afghanistan, and that was supposed to take place in Scandinavia if following the books,LOL.

Aside from the name Shadizar, no other countries or geographic ideas can be determined ..for all we know Cimmeria in the movie, couldve been the Urals or something. Moreover I cant help but see Islamic Iberia(Shadizar) with the Viking cheiftain(Osric).
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The Last Atlantean
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 19:00

can you imagine a Conan movie depicting Conan like pirates of the carribean?????Wearing 16th cent clothing and carrying baskethilt blades?I'm sure some of the hardcore REH fans would even relish a Kozak Conan too.As much as I enjoy stories like the black stranger (I have to admit I prefer DeCamps Tranicos lol!!!!),that Conan is to me the legendary entity and the real guy is always the guy who destroyed the snake cult about whom the other (REH) stories evolve.........i guess I'm ready for some REH anathema-aphorism,too,right?Sorry but I find the 1st movie truly superior to the stories.
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Cromulus The Destroyer
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 19:24

Oh, Conan the Corsair and Freebooter, HAHA! Didnt Howard have Conan fight Ottoman warriors too?! Shocked

Another interesting thing I want to add, is that if following the release print of the film, instead of Shadizar, it was called Zamora in the movie. Shadizar name got axed along with Valeria's name. Now there is a real Zamora, and its in Spain.

Stone was correct by stating, Howard couldve had the stories taken place in the Dark Ages, even Milius's tale took place in a alternate earth during what felt to be the Middle Ages. If they would've cast Sydow or Hayden still as the old Norse King, was Persis Khambatta to be his half Moorish daughter from a Moorish and Norse dominated Iberia?

Stone's Cimmerians though seemed more blatantly Amerindian influenced, young Conan was described as wearing moccasins. Howard had the Hyborian Age Picts described as basically apish Amerindians. When in all other non-Conan stories of his, they were gallant Celts. He was surely fickle and not cohesive either...not by a long shot.

So, I think there is much room for improvement, whether it was Milius or Howard telling the stories..both used to much modern shadings and settings.

having said that, I prefer the Movie, as well as the Marvel comics and Howard's King Kull of Valusia.
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The Last Atlantean
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 19:32

damn right!I enjoy basically the same,though i don't have a huge fondness for Kull (I feel I'm prejudiced with the name!If it was Conan....)and I love Thomas's adaptations with Alcala's renderings from old SSOCs.But that's all about Thomas I enjoy,as I find myself at odds with his Conan canon.And many of his routine tales are as boring as Howard's.
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PostSubject: Re: Hyborian world historical parallels   Sat 17 Nov - 19:44

HAHA yeah I agree though. Well what attracted me to the Marvel series, was their Greco-Roman and Norse mythological accuracy and characters and I grew up reading them and havig He-Man figures. Conan battling Snake-men and fabulous beasts is priceless, its pure Heroic Mythology and legend in the vein of Perseus and Hercules.

Some of the writing and art was something else though of course from Marvel. But I noticed alotve Marvel influence in the CONAN movie, and its only a plus in my book.

If we want a real Marvel or Howard CONAN, then surely watch CONAN THE DESTROYER , KULL THE CONQUEROR and even THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER. Mr. Green

PS


I saw some of the new comics, they had Conan fighting a Samurai for Christ's sake. So not impressed with that series either.
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