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 Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian

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AOster
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PostSubject: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Fri 29 Feb - 2:03

I'm doing research on the Mongols, and it seems like, every time i read anything now, all I see is Conan. There is a great thread about the extent of symbolism in the film, but it seems that we are missing the over lying story that, though it shares tidbits from Howards short stories, seems to be richer in Mongol history and similarities than anywhere else.

Is anyone here a fellow east asian studies guy? I can't be the only one who sees so many similarities with the people of the steppe. From Cimmarians to Subetei bagatur, i feel that milus had just finished similar studies when he tackled the rewrite.
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Cromulus The Destroyer
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Fri 29 Feb - 5:16

There's a few Genghis Khan similarities Milius included and some references, but most of what you see like the wolf witch and dog chasing's is from the comics, but not as much Mongolian stuff as Milius would have you think.

Milius favored least superficially, some of dark ages nomadic tribes from Asia, like Turkomans, Alans and of course those Mongolians. Howard mixed timelines and cultures whenever and wherever possible as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Fri 29 Feb - 5:34

I guess I ment Mongol to imply all people of the steppe... I think there are more subtleties though that may be just a simple part of the Conan character.

For example though, the young genghis/temujin was put in the stocks after his father was killed. Then he escaped in to the wild, chased by wolves.....

Thats just the start.

I'm rather burnt out after spending the day writing a research paper on Genghis Khan for my "EAS 313: people of the steppe" class.

Rich history, but it was hard not hearing Basil's work in my head during most of it.
Conan
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Sat 1 Mar - 6:03

Also he was forced into slavery and taken east...
The visual aspects are also weighted hevily towards Mongolia vs the prehistory we heard its claimed to be based in. Cimmerians were Steppe people of prehistory, but the film encorporates mongol era steppe history.

I'm not nocking it, but its interesting how hevy the similarities to temujins life are.
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Sat 1 Mar - 6:42

Conan the Tartar? Possibly, as Milius wanted it taken place in Russia, Oliver Stone also wanted it like that and both were using that Soviet propaganda movie "Alexander Nevsky" as a inspiration. Cimmerians are largely quasi-Historical, but seem to have been a mix of Thracians and Scythia's(Iranians).

Quote :
"According to Encyclopedia Britannica:They probably did live in the area north of the Black Sea, but attempts to define their original homeland more precisely by archaeological means, or even to fix the date of their expulsion from their country by the Scythians, have not so far been completely successful"

Quote :
"A mythical" people also named Cimmerians are described in Book 11, 14 of Homer's Odyssey as living beyond the Oceanus, in a land of fog and darkness, at the edge of the world and the entrance of Hades; most probably they are unrelated to the Cimmerians of the Black Sea."

They predate Turks, tartars and Mongols by over 2,500 years and disappear from history quite early.

*funny thing in Stone's script, it rather reminded me of that movie 300, with Conan and Valeria with Red Brotherhood battling separate armies of Orientals in montages, from everyone Babylonians to Han Chinese somewhere in the East, not to far from Zamora .
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Sat 1 Mar - 7:29

Yes, the cimmerians seem to have been a cop out for howard, due to the lack of any decent firm info. :)

All in all, howard's world of prehistory is cool, even with the slight impossibilities.

It's time to crash here, but I'll add that, when driving home from vegas one day/night (28hours straight; vegas to seattle) I passed an exit on I-5 that almost had me pulling over to steal the sign. It simply said "Zammora" and had an arrow. Yeahhhh!
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Sat 1 Mar - 19:51

I remember MightyMcT once sent me this one two years ago already,LOL.

Archaeologists search for evidence of Cimmerian settlement, homeland of Conan the Barbarian

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=50241

**pegaso Models also released this obvious(though unofficial)Arnold's CONAN likeness "Cimmerian Warrior" :

http://homepage.mac.com/antallan/conanpm1.html
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Sun 2 Mar - 8:49

I don't know if you know this shit, I made a little work about the Milius' movie and the real historical mongols influences. I can imagine there could be even more I dindn't notice. I had some more in my pockets if some day I continue the videogames thingy more about the armours and weapons, the same real Subotai and some other stuff. But actually you can say the miliu's movie is more close to a real historical movie than to fantasy. It's like the fantasy or the delirious dream of a history teacher. I think REH was not so into asian barbarians like into nordic people. Milius is more interested in the real historical barbarians, and the first one who comes to mind as you think in that word is Genghis Khan. One of the toughest motherfucker in history. It gives the movie a "realistic" ambience that could not have it it would have been closer to a pulp fiction.

http://conancompletist.forumactif.com/conan-the-barbarian-f3/a-complete-history-of-videogames-volume-2-t881.htm

Also, the movie has some very strong oriental influences, besides the iron european age feeling, we have kendo japanese fencing styles of fighting and Eart European-like landscapes, zen symbolism and phylosophies and a barbarian flavour closer to ancient preceltic Kurgan cultures -that habited Russia and the East of the continent before the supposed "aryans" or better said "Indo-european" people habited the west.
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PostSubject: Re: Conan the great Oceanic Khan, or Genghis the Barbarian   Sun 2 Mar - 19:04

For the record, the clothing in CONAN was very late middle ages to Renaissance era. During the torture scene and Orgy chamber, I think Rexor was wearing a standard Doublet and right down to his musketeer boots, and Conan wears a codpiece,lol.

I wouldnt say Conan the movie, represents a more realistic Pre-history or up to Bronze age, only that it intertwines those things along with classical mythology into an alternate reality taken place in the Dark Ages, which is closer to Howards fantasy world of course, and what Stone was saying.

Milius did succeed in making a rather non-Hollywood ancient world picture, which is something most sword movies fail. Often they have some heavy handed message of "freedom" and over loaded with modern sensibilities. i enjoyed the atmosphere of CTB, havent seen it equaled yet.
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