THE CONAN THAT COULD HAVE BEEN

Not sure this has been posted but it was cool:

Quote :

That’s the face of the Conan you’ll never see in a movie.

By now you’ve probably seen the images from the set of the new Conan movie. Jason Momoa looks like a cross between Tarzan and Kid Conan, and the general cheesiness has done little to instill hope in the minds of fans. What we’ve ended up with is basically the weakest version of Conan possible, but what would have been the strongest?

I could do a whole series on the trials and tribulations of a new Conan movie over the past few decades; people from John Milius to the Wachowski Bros had their attempts. At a couple of points it got close to happening at Warner Bros; close enough that make-up tests were commissioned. The image you see above is one of those.

The make up was from Prosthetic Renaissance, and it was a pretty big set of appliances – forehead, nostrils, chin, bridge of the nose, wig, even cheeks. The design was, obviously, based on the late Frank Frazetta’s vision for the character, and it’s looks like a painting from the Frazetta archive come alive.

The movie ended up not going this way, and instead we’re going to have a slight, young Conan instead of this grizzled, bad ass one. For now enjoy imagining what could have been.

The concept and design are by Mike Marino, while the graphic design is by Anil Gupta.

UPDATE: Some people don’t believe this is a makeup, which really speaks highly of Mike’s work. He’s supplied us with a shot of the sculpt:

http://www.chud.com/23767/the-conan-that-could-have-been/

Interesting find.

I wouldn't describe it as a faithful reproduction of Frazetta, though, but more as a sort of caricature instead. Has a "Sin City" feel wich I initially dislike for a possible Conan movie. I'd rather prefer a totally realistic look than a "comic book" feel.

But if the script, the director and the actor were good, then why not.


Even though I hated the guy during the pre-release in-love-with-his-own-ass talks, and his ludicrous bashing on Milius and Arnold, I didn't dislike Momoa's work in the end. I disliked the movie, and disliked the WAY he was driven to perform Conan. Under a good script and director, Momoa could have incarned a more than decent Conan, imo.

I am a second generation Conan reader and have been reading the Howard books since before starting kindergarten. I bought the first copy of the comics when they hit the shelves and had all of them until I hit high school. This model of Conan is pretty close to what I imagined him in Howard's stories (smoldering blue eyes though). The new Conan was a total failure and the guy who played Conan didn't look tough enough to fight his way out of a wet paper sack. He is a pretty boy trying to play a part that is way over his head. I think the stupid eyebrows is what caught the film peoples eye and they should have been looking for a real life hard ass not some, I only build muscle in the gym actor. Real life tough guys are the best action stars. If your old enough you may remember Charles Bronson, Steve McQueen, the guy who played Conan's father in the Arnold version, Mr.T, etc. People are too hung up on who the girls like and who the hottest guy in hollywood is to cast a serious role like Conan. It is like the dog you look at and know that he is going to chew you to pieces if you mess with him and the dog that looks mean but tucks his tail and runs at the first loud voice. Hollywood has lost the touch for casting tough guys in good film roles. That's what happens when some director or producer has their own agenda and does not have a true passion for the character they are putting on screen. I have been reading Conan for well over 25 years and read the books by Robert E. Howard over and over again and I am sure there are many more people out there like me that could help these film people if they would just get off of their high horse and ask. If they did they wouldn't be losing money left and right. And who picked out the swords for the film. Those had to be the ugliest Japamasion pieces of junk I have ever seen in a supposedly serious film. Jody Sampson built two beautiful swords for the original that may have not been period correct but they were stunning to behold and looked like real weapons. The only film series I have liked in a long time was the Lord Of The Rings and that is due to the director knowing his job and having a true passion for what he was doing. The actors all matched well and the weapons were beautiful. I liked the Arnold films okay but they were not Conan. I remember going with my father to see the films at the theatre and we were both very disappointed that it was not Conan on screen. Arnold came off as a big slow witted push over and that was not Howard's Conan. It was a good movie and beautiful to watch but it was not Conan. But this is just my opinion.

You are right. Overall, when you say "Arnold's Conan was not Conan". Well yeah, it was Milius' Conan, not REH's Conan. The only REH's Conan is in the books. Was Roy Thomas's Conan, in your opninion, REH's Conan? He was not.

There are 2 subways here:

1- You claim to WANT a literature accurate movie, with a real REH's Conan on it. -- That's fair, and that would be awesome. It haven't been made yet, and could never be made.

Still that is not reason to not appreciate other versions of the character, and the accuracy with the original material shouldn't be the guide to judge if it's good or bad... unless one is unable to see virtues beyond that.

2- Non accurate to reh versions of Conan abound. Even not being REH's Conan, some of them are very good (Roy Thomas' Conan, Milius' Conan, etc etc).

That COULD have happened with the Momoa movie. It could have been good. I don't blame the actor, I blame producers. Under a quality light, Momoa could have shine. But instead, producers chose to increase his "pretty boy" side instead of his bestial one, wich also has. Eliminate de ridiculous wardrobe, shameful props, girlie hairdress and "top model" shaving, and add some realistic "makeup" to him. He would have rocked.

REH's Conan could be brought to the screen if the right people got a hold of the project. I can remember how disappointed many people (including myself) were with the release of the LOTR cartoons back in the day. They were poorly made and did not even run the same theme. I can remember conversations about there never being a true LOTR movie made as it was impossible to pull off. If we could have only looked into the future and saw what was coming we may have not felt so disappointed. Today we have the technology and the resources to make movies that were not able to be made even twenty years ago thanks to computers and all of the fancy toys Hollywood has at their disposal. The problem is I think they have leaned on those toys for too long and need to get back to making real movies. I think we are in a period like what happened in the 60's and 70's. There were a few good films out there but most of them a person couldn't even stand to watch. Then they pulled their act together and we ended up with some pretty good ones. I never said I did not like the 82 Conan. I just stated that it should not have held the name and not been protrayed as such. And no matter how much people like to argue the new movie I still detest it. The only guy I liked on the whole film was the actor who played his father (Perlman) who can actually play a tough guy. I guess it is due to the fact that I like the Hell Boy movies. Send Jason on a ship and have him work at sea for a few years (instead of surfing in Hawaii), inlist him in the military and send him into battle, have him work hard labor for a few years and then maybe, just maybe he would be ready to play Conan. Other wise he has absolutely no idea of what the role is about. I enjoyed the Conan comics and they were not REH's Conan but with him being dead that was as close to new reading as we were going to get and it was better than nothing. They sure beat the job de Camp and Carter's worthless attempt at Conan in the #6 Conan The Buccaneer. When I first read it I thought I was reading a horribly written pirate book with Conan's name thrown in. de Camp was a decent editor and did some good to the Howard tells (some) but he was an editor and that is all that he was. I have been writing for many years and have dealt with editors who think they are authors and are not. I remember one who tried changing my stories to suite her needs and beliefs and my readers sent her tons of nasty letters and she finally found out that she was an editor and not a writer. That is how I feel about the movie business. Some people are born to do certain jobs and others are not. And when a person who thinks they are what they are not that is when you end up with a flop like the new Conan film or the LOTR cartoons. Again this is just my opinion.

I think you nailed it, the 2010 Conan totally looks like a piece made by egotistic and retarded producer's minds: they already had the style, the tone, Conan's "new look" and storyline in mind BEFORE hiring any screenwritter. In this particular case I don't think it was a matter of producers chaning things on the writter/director work, I think they actually hired workers who would follow EXACTLY their orders and shitty ideas word by word.

Still, don't you think you might be a little too "fan" about the perfect actor for Conan? I still defend Momoa. You mention Hellboy: these movies are quite innacurate about the original comic material, and yet they are cool. I still think Momoa could have been a cool Conan without those shitted-head producers fucking it all.

No I don't think I'm too (fan) for the character. Like I stated before I have known Conan since my youth and learned to read before kindergarten because of REH's work. I have read the books I do not know how many times for over a score and know the character inside and out. In many ways I modeled myself after him as I had no one to look up to in my childhood. I had a very difficult childhood and the REH books were my escape. I grew up in the mountains, worked in the mines and have done hard labor all of my life (full time job since I was 12). I have traveled extensively and have earned my way on each and every journey. I did not travel in the contemporary fashion as I wanted to face the dangers of the trip and learn people and be able to say that I had actually lived the life I had dreamed of, minus the swords, sorcerers and evil monsters. I have seen the worst and best in people and have often been asked to write a book about my life by many people who are interested in my travels and stories. Many have not believed my tales until I have given them proof or they have spoken to some one who knows me and they are now fans of my stories and enjoy hearing them. I have known many men like Conan. They weren't even actors and could have pulled off the role perfectly as they are what they are and not acting. You must live among men like Conan and be one of them to understand the life. It is unforgiving, leaves your body and soul scared in many ways, has it's own simple rules and does not set well with our current society. That is the reason I stay to my self and do not intermingle with the populace as I would eventually end up in prison. I have never been under anyone's yoke and could never hold a job for long as my personality always clashed with someone that thought I needed to bend with the wind, so to speak. I am not sounding my own horn or trying to make myself into some kind of hero or being arrogant. I am just simply attempting to let you see things through my eyes and the eyes of the men that many call uncivilized, mean, dangerous, etc (not speaking of the thugs and other trash roaming the streets and alleys praying on innocent people). This is the reason I know that a real Conan film could be made if the people who do not understand the life would simply ask for help and myself and plenty of others would jump in to assist as we admire Conan and feel that he is one of us. Our way of life calls for a certain code and until you learn that code the hard way society will continue to become weaker and weaker as time passes. That is why we are in the trouble we are in now. I would hate to think of where I would be now if I were a young man again and had to live in a society full of so called tough guys who degrade women and themselves and use guns to gain respect that they do not even deserve. Hell they don't even know what respect is or what being tough is all about. I told one kid who thought having been in prison made him tough, it takes more than a set of balls to make a real man and that prison did not magically turn him into a tough guy who everyone better respect at a glance. Todays youth and others think prison makes a man out of you. Wrong! Hard work, self reliance, pride in yourself and what you do and taking care of others is what makes a man. It's like I told him, why in the hell would you want to purposely end up in a hole with a bunch of guys with no women for several years. He said he was looking forward to getting back in. It was the man sex he missed I guess. He has a lot of lessons and ass beatings coming his way if he does not change his view of the world. And that goes for most of today's younger generation. Like I stated before this is just my opinion and you can take this however you want.

I understand the subject is very personal to you.

Just wondering, have you ever consider to make a little Howardian film by yourself?

Thought about it a few times but am now very ill so that is not going to happen any time soon. Wouldn't even know where to get the finances and that is what has held me back from doing it. I would love to work on a good film and would be extremely picky about it which I have heard costs alot of money. If I were to get better and could meet the right people: I would do it in a heartbeat! If you know any connections let me know and I have a script already made and have done some concept drawings of the sets and characters. Problem is I see it being a series of films to really do it justice. Maybe someday it will all come together and I can put my money where my mouth is. I thought of doing a small low budget piece to get interest and then try to get some financial backers as I know Conan properties is extremely difficult to work with. I am a sword and knife maker by trade and have looked at turning out a line of official Conan swords from the books but their terms are a bit steep for my taste so I can only imagine what a film would be like. If you and others would show interest I may seriously look into it as I live in an area where the filming would fit in perfectly and can get the people to be in the film at no charge if they thought it would help me out. Alot to think about. Let me know your thoughts and see what others think.

What I would suggest you is to find some filmaker folks who agree to go into a "low cost" production and then go by your own. I cannot help you since I am and live in Spain. Here the problem is quite the same, lotsa ideas and projects but then a horrible impossibility to realize them cause money for small productions have practically dissapeared. They only give you money if you are a well known director who can assure benefits. Small filmakers try to find the way to produce their projects at the lower cost possible.

A Howardian film -maybe a short film- can be done using natural landscapes and primitive scenario. It could work in a simple forest, maybe some natural caves, etc. No jewel cities or titanic temples absolutely needed. But weapons, wardrobe, make up and some propos are needed and that asks for a certain amount of money. Since you are a weapons maker, there's a very important part of it on your advantage.

Even if you decide to add some landscapes with cities, castles, whatever, these could be done using classic FX, miniatures, or digital drawing, etc. That's quite cheap, only time and patience needed.

As said, I recommend to find some experienced filmakers, fans of REH, who can help you to plan the cheapest and most effective way to realize your idea.

Keep us informed if you decide to go on!

Okay so you got me to thinking about this seriously. I called a guy who I used to work with who now produces small films and documentaries. He has access to a college's film department and said he would be willing to work with me on the deal as long as I take the lead. Got to say it seems a bit over my head but I have complained enough over the years that I need to do something or shut up. I just need to check with Conan properties and see what it would take to use the name on a small scale. If not I will do a film without the name just to get my foot in the door. I live in Colorado so the landscape here is perfect. One more problem is the guy doesn't want to do it unless I play Conan or the lead role. He thinks since I know the character inside and out that it only makes sense for me to do the part. And he says after reading the first book that I remind him alot of what he invisioned the character as. That means I have to get over this illness, go back to working in the blacksmith shop, put some serious muscle on again, get in shape, dye some gray hairs back to black, etc. But like he said it is not going to happen over night and we have time to deal with all this in the mean time. So I am starting to work on story boards as I can and he is telling people about the project to see if we can get some funding. He says it looks promising and that he would really enjoy working on the film with me. He loved the LOTR series and said he has wanted to do something like that ever since the first film came out. He is going to read all of the REH books and become more familiar with the whole world of Conan. I just hope that I do not let myself and other REH fans down! I will do my damndest to make a really good film. I won't let some piece of garbage get out there! So hold in and I will keep you updated as to the progress. May not post for awhile but will let you know when anything of real substance occurs. Never dreamed I'd be playing Conan. Just going back to my childhood I guess. I think it will be a very exciting adventure to say the least. And thanks to the guy who posted the original picture and post on the Conan that should have been. If I hadn't seen this post and talked with FT I wouldn't have pushed it this far. Brick by brick.

So FT, with the news of Arnold once again playing Conan all of our hard work is for naught. Deal fell through and now we have to wait. We are now going to film a character of our own creation and bring it to film. Already got things rolling and think that although it is not Conan it will please the sword and sorcery crowd! We have big plans and hopes for this film and we are pouring our hearts into it. Going to see some things that no one has done before and will have strong characters and a strong story line. After think tanking the character and story we believe we may have two films to make. Got the ball rolling and will post some stills when we start filming. Going to have some really great battle scenes and creatures in it! I am designing all the weapons and you will see some nice pieces! Hope you guys will enjoy it and it will not be like the ****ty 80's and present sword and sorcery films.

Go, Bladesmith!

Thanks FT!! Getting together some really talented people and some beautiful areas to shoot in. Hell of alot of work though! Somedays I end more tired than if I had forged several swords. I have had to learn to be a bit more "civilized" with people on this deal. Some of them are really hard to deal with and I have to constantly remind myself to count to 10 and that these people act diffrently than what I am accustomed to. The greater part of the people really love me though which is good. Although others really hate me with no in betweens. Like the producer said, Can't please everyone! WIll send you a DVD with some rough scenes and such and see what you think as I value your opinion. I have spoke with the producer and he wants to do a Conan fan film with me as the man himself. I'm a bit nervous but also excited as I have always wanted to do this. The only argument we have had is how to direct it and I gave him the story I want to use and some old letters my family has and told him we would in a sense let REH set in the director's seat. But like he said, Even if we made the best Conan film of all time Hollywood most likely won't even look at us as I am not a famous actor with a beautiful face and he is a small time producer. But who knows stranger things have happened.

When we get paid I am planning a trip to Spain with an old friend who's health is failing. He came here over 30 years ago and has not been back to Spain for many years. He is a good man but speaks only a little english and has had a hard time making it here. My father and I have helped him for years and have become close friends with him. He has mentioned to me many times of going back to Spain and tells me I should go and see his family and home there. When we leave I will contact you and would like to visit with you while we are there. Perhaps you could tell me about or show me some of the sights as I don't know how much traveling he will be able to do with me when we arrive. Best to you FT and I hope you are doing well!

bladesmith wrote:

When we get paid I am planning a trip to Spain with an old friend who's health is failing. He came here over 30 years ago and has not been back to Spain for many years. He is a good man but speaks only a little english and has had a hard time making it here. My father and I have helped him for years and have become close friends with him. He has mentioned to me many times of going back to Spain and tells me I should go and see his family and home there. When we leave I will contact you and would like to visit with you while we are there. Perhaps you could tell me about or show me some of the sights as I don't know how much traveling he will be able to do with me when we arrive. Best to you FT and I hope you are doing well!

Let me know if you ever come to Spain, brother. I can introduce you to some fine people who works on movies, doing quite cheap artesanal fx and stuff.

I finished doing my own little movie some weeks ago. My first directing job, following a script of my own. Not Howardian related but involved an urban warrior anyhow. I pretty much understand what you say about learning to deal with people on set... man, some unproffesional people gets really crazy there, and puts in total danger the piece of work. (I consider proffesional not necessarily to have worked on many movies, but simply an "attitude" towards work and the people on the set: concentrate on doing your own work and don't fuck around messing other's work). Sadly I was co-working with a partner who has ended revealing as a total asshole and sort of transform into a "ruiner producer" role to steal my authority on the final product. Tons and tons of fights and discussions for such silly little details, all for ego's sake. I'm exhausted... and not too happy with the film in question... But still, it was a fine damn challenge accepted and one of the greatest experiences on my life.

Dying to see your footage.

I know what you are talking about! Some of the people who are working with me are constantly having a pissing contest with me. And over stupid little things! It's like I told them. This is my writing, my character, my idea, and anyone who doesn't want to follow my lead can go to Hell and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. So far there have been no physical altercations but one guy I know is looking for it. The producer knows and told me he hopes that we are in costume when it happens so he can catch me beating the Hell out of him on film and put it in the movie. He told me he has always hated the fake fight scenes and wanted to film a real one. I just laughed. I don't wish to hurt the guy but I will if I have to as he is being an arrogant asshole to everyone and I grind my teeth every time I see him or hear him! His lack of respect for women is what got us going. He is a bully of sorts, which I hate with a passion, and thinks he can force himself on anyone and everyone. We would ditch him in a heart beat but some of our money is tied up with him. A favor deal I wish the producer never would have taken! The producer just hopes that after we are through throwing blows that he will act like the cry baby he is and leave the project. Spoiled rich kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will stay in contact with you and let you know how things are and wish you luck with your project! Perhaps one day we can do something together. Best to you and yours and hope you are doing well!

bladesmith wrote:

He told me he has always hated the fake fight scenes and wanted to film a real one

Gosh ! You're working with John Milius himself ?

I don't know much about Milius but will remedy that if he is that type of man. My producer is an ex boxer and a little crazy. It wouldn't surprise me to find out he has spent some time in jail for hell raising. He grew up in a really rough neighborhood and knows how things really work in the world. He'll drink with you, laugh with you, and fight alongside you if you need his help. He believes in me and what I am doing and has said that he would follow me to the ends of the earth if need be. We have our shouting matches but always come away better for them. Can't ask for much more than that!

Here is A Conan Movie Project The Frost Giant's Daughter

bladesmith wrote:

I know what you are talking about! Some of the people who are working with me are constantly having a pissing contest with me. And over stupid little things! It's like I told them. This is my writing, my character, my idea, and anyone who doesn't want to follow my lead can go to Hell and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. So far there have been no physical altercations but one guy I know is looking for it. The producer knows and told me he hopes that we are in costume when it happens so he can catch me beating the Hell out of him on film and put it in the movie. He told me he has always hated the fake fight scenes and wanted to film a real one. I just laughed. I don't wish to hurt the guy but I will if I have to as he is being an arrogant asshole to everyone and I grind my teeth every time I see him or hear him! His lack of respect for women is what got us going. He is a bully of sorts, which I hate with a passion, and thinks he can force himself on anyone and everyone. We would ditch him in a heart beat but some of our money is tied up with him. A favor deal I wish the producer never would have taken! The producer just hopes that after we are through throwing blows that he will act like the cry baby he is and leave the project. Spoiled rich kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will stay in contact with you and let you know how things are and wish you luck with your project! Perhaps one day we can do something together. Best to you and yours and hope you are doing well!

Yes, for some reason at some point everyone wants to be the director. No matter how much you've talked earlier with them about it. People loose it when they are on set. That's what I mean about "proffesional attitude". I am an actor myself and learnt pretty early never mess or contradict a director, trust him always and respect his mistakes (you might be wrong and it's not a mistake, maybe you simply didn't understood what he wants. So shut up and do what he tells you to do. He is The Man there, period. Even if he is wrong, its his mistake, not yours. You as an actor or any other role you have has a lot to worry about instead of loosing your time on pissing contests. Of course you can always ask the director about any doubts you have about your work, but these questions should always follow the line of "how can I do this so it fits with what you want?". There's lot of frustrated people who accepts to be in a movie for ego's sake, but they don't understand these points which are basic. But well... that's something I learnt from my last experience: search for really good and trustable people to work with, people who are going to respect you and your vision, overall).

I mostly dislike Tim Burton but I think this movie -and specially this ending- is absolutely true and hilarious (and Orson is actually Vincent D'Onofrio, Robert E Howard nonetheless!!! )



About that bully, I think you are lucky if he plays your enemy onscreen. Because I know this as an actor: these kind of things happen, when 2 actors met and they are gonna play enemy characters, a true rivality awakes between them. Something similar happens sometimes when 2 actors are gonna play lovers, they kinda fall in love in true life (maybe they never take this beyond fiction, but the emotions arise between them). It's not a rule and doesn't always happen, but it's not rare it does. I hope you can hold those feelings until the shooting starts and there USE them to bring some reality to the performance. I guess you don't need to beat the shit out of the guy for real -now that's your choice - but do your acting for real, like you really wanna kill him, and then do your "fake" fight stunts. A golden rule for an actor: USE whatever life brings you to feel, put it on the character.

Wish you the best, brother.