Historical Art and Symbolism inspiration in CONAN

Yeah! Well Conan's necklace is an obvoius ship's wheel, which is a relatively modern invention though.

A more symbolic usage would of course be some kinda solar symbol, as used since the Mesolithic, but more frequent in the Bronze age, coinciding with the development of the wheel and with the introduction of the chariot.

Here's Apollo with the solar disc--Which bears a remarkable resemblance to Star War's Imperial Insignia..no doubt designed by Ron Cobb too:



The Vatican St. Peter's square :



24 Stone Sun wheels at Konark, India:


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CONAN shield from the Mounds:



Elamite Wheel from Chogha Zanbil, modern day Iran:

Appears Conan wears the Wheel of Life on his neck, who knew the Vanir were Buddists?! lol

Dhammacakka




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmacakra

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Nice Greek Pottery:






Ancient Siclian women-one is holding a sun symbol:


Helios on his chariot


Jesus from Monreale Cathedral, Sicily - Typical Roman representation of him, with having the classic Sun wheel behind his head

Here's two Sun Towers/Light houses:


A The ancient Tower at Torone, Greece
B Tower of Cronus in Sicily



Tower of Alexandria it seems to have some things in common with Cobb's conceptions of Shadizar and Doom's Tower's :

Flaming Turd wrote:

The architecture is clearly a Ron Cobb's imitation from the Milius' movie:

Wouldnt surprise me, if he worked on it. I think Milius produced it, Basil scored it, and Jody Samson supplied the weapons for it too. It was one of their biggest hits from 1983-1993.

Here's a Roman Solar mosaic which also has the Comacine knot, also known as the "Solomon knot":

Quote :

The image at right is the most common of several decorative devices referred to as "Solomon's Knot," a simple design of interlaced, endless loops.

This particular design is very ancient, and appears all over the architecture of the ancient world, and further back, in stone-age carvings.

The design is frequently used in the designs of ancient synagogues, which probably gave rise to the symbol's association with King Solomon. Interlaced designs of this type took much skill to execute; reportedly, this symbol was a particular hallmark of the medieval Italian stonemasons known as the Comacines,* who imbued it with mystical meaningi, a symbol of eternal motion and the intertwining of space and time.

Solomon's knot is related to the swastika and the shield knot; the knot is often interchangable for these solar emblems.

* According to Masonic lore, the Comacines were the forerunners of the Freemasons.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefssolomonsknot.htm

The Scandinavians also used a similar one called St. Hans/St. John's cross:



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I have to admit this shot always boggled my mind a bit, as why is Thulsa Doom doing the Roman salute on horseback?



Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius:

This one image is very fascinating as its overloaded with various symbolism.

We have, the 8 legged horse(symbolizing infinity), The Unicursal Hexagram is used again(which Cobb uses for Crom/Conan), the Roman Eagle(Power and infinity), a Celtic knot(infinity) and Spider(which symbolizes infinity, the moon and treachery):


Sleipnir, the steed of Odin:

Quote :

the legendary eight-legged horse belonging to Odin, the Father-God of the Norse pantheon. Sleipnir carries Odin between the world of the Gods and the world of matter. The eight legs symbolize the directions of the compass, and Sleipnir's ability to travel through land and air. According to legend, Sleipnir is the offspring of the God Loki and the horse of the Giants, Svaldifari.

Mycenaean Pottery:


Wiki has an article on it with an interesting tidbit:

Quote :

Although rare, it has been seen, both in ancient and contemporary times. Julius Caesar raised and rode just such a horse in a number of battles after it was declared an omen of good luck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir

Yaro is connected to the spider, and uses such symbolism as both King Osric and Shadizar is under the control of Yaro the black spider. A giant spider was also to have been seen in the Tower of the Serpent in the 2nd draft.

The Spider is related to the Scorpio in the Zodiac and mythology, its associated with the infinity as it has 8 legs and spins the web of creation. In Christianity its largely considered evil. Arachne in Greek mythology, lives forever in the form of a spider.

Quote :

Spiders are weavers and tricksters. They symbolize fate, female energy, creative energy, female energy, wisdom, creativity, new life, entanglement, caution, divine inspiration, starting a project, becoming pregnant, being industrious, warning signals, illusions. They are connected to Ishtar, Atargatis, Athene, the Fates, the Norns, Holda, Inktomi, Kokyangwuti, Tsitsicnako and Sussistanako and Neith.

A lot of the symbolism associated with Spider can be seen in her form. Her body is made up roughly of a figure eight which, laid on it's side, is the symbol for infinity. Infinity is like the wheel of life, constantly flowing in a continuous cycle from one circle to the other. She is also associated with death and rebirth, not only with the shape of her body but with the eating of the male after mating. She is both a feminine and lunar energy. Her constant building of new webs have been tied by some to the waxing and waning of the moon. The glistening web also has very strong symbology, signifying the tapestry of the universe and the infinate possibilities of creation.

http://www.crystalinks.com/scorpio.html

Cromulus The Destroyer wrote:

CONAN shield from the Mounds:

Actually, it is a CIMMERIAN shield, not from the mongol mounds.




The shield that Conan uses in the Mounds is this.



I don't recognise the symbol... Do you?




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Interesting SUN WHEEL behind Christ's head, true.








In this picture, the photographer seems to have used the same symbolism, maybe to sacralize the image of the king Osric.





Another strong symbol of power is the EAGLE.

Is a symbol of GOD.

It represents the light of the SUN, also. -(Again, we have a lot of solar symbols, in the main male heroes).


PICTISH stone carving, featuring an EAGLE. -(Scotland)




Zeus, whose symbol was an EAGLE -(clearly a symbol of HIGH ROYALTY).



Plate, 500 BC.
















Ganymede with EAGLE.




Visigoth eagles.









Symbol of the first French empire.



Another imperial French eagle -(1815)




Aztec eagles. -(The eagles were a sacred symbol for warriors. There was an "eagle" order of knights, in aztec and also in mayan cultures).










Eagle eating hearts of sacrificed victims. (Aztec).




In Mexico, the EAGLE (THE REASON) eats the SERPENT (THE IRRATIONAL). It's a very meaning symbol, as the "Light of the Day and Reason" devours the "Irrational Fears of the Night".

After that, the eagle turns into a "feathered serpent".




That is pretty close related to this old imagery, of the "LIGHT" defeating the "EVIL".














Standard from a KING in NAVARRA -(Spain, Middle Ages).




Another heraldic symbol from Spain, MIDDLE AGES.




More medieval heraldic.



More NAZI eagles. -(clearly taken from ancient ROME),

Flaming Turd wrote:

Actually, it is a CIMMERIAN shield, not from the mongol mounds.

HAHAHA true, however it was used a total of 3 times throughout the movie. Once more in Shadizar when Conan and Subutai are looking at a sword from that black merchant, its seen on Conan's leftside(far left in widescreen) in the background. Also again its seen during Conan arrival at the Mounds, we see a mounted skeleton warrior holding the very same shield.

I remember talking to Mightymct on that shield, I had once thought it was a chariot wheel at the mounds, now I know why.

Flaming Turd wrote:

I don't recognise the symbol... Do you?

It appears like a stylized sign of the Ares the god of war, more commonly/popularly used for the Zodiac Aries..in other words, the Ram:

This Wheel of Life/Wheel of Pain tarot also uses the Ram, from over on page 7:

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Continuing from page 6's Greek shield patterns:

Two sites here with some more "Corinthian" style helmets:

http://www.museum.upenn.edu/Greek_World/men_weapons.html

http://www.stockphotofinder.com/stock-photos/c/corinthian_helmet.html

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Some more images of Hercules

I'm sure you have been here by now:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/all_seeing_eye/conan/index.html

found this here:

http://hem.passagen.se/kjnoren/jordan/intro.html

The Serpent god Glykon:

Quote :

The cult of the snake god Glykon was introduced in in the mid-second century CE by the Greek prophet Alexander of Abonutichus. This is, at least, what we can deduce from the writings by the Greek author Lucian of Samosata (c.120-c.190), who devoted an extremely hostile (and extremely amusing) pamphlet to the charlatan he called Alexander the oracle monger.

Quote :

The prophet Alexander brought the god, a very large snake, to his home town Abonutichus in Paphlagonia and built a temple, which became an important oracle.

http://www.livius.org/gi-gr/glykon/glykon.html

Detail of a stone wall into Palacio da Pena (Sintra, Portugal).





Info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pena_Palace

Found this one a few days ago, English comic writer is some kinda neo-Pagan, supposedly worships Glykon:

Here's an interesting coin of Pope Gregory, showing a Dragon variant of Ouroboros surrounding a ram's head...rather zodiacal as Pope Gregory is where we get our modern calendar from(he tweaked Julius Caesar's calendar) as well as the Gregorian chanting of the Church music.


Here's another pic of a Roman bronze bracelet:



Here's some 3rd Reich things:



Arno Breker's Germanic man Statue obvious imitation of Hercules statues:

Cromulus The Destroyer wrote:

Found this one a few days ago, English comic writer is some kinda neo-Pagan, supposedly worships Glykon:

That dude is Alan Moore, creator of "V for vendetta" and "Watchmen", among others -like "League of extraordinary gentlemen, which movie sucks but comic is really allright-.


The nazi art is really interesting, I think would be the main influence of the movie sthethic as Milius is a WWII and nazi memorabilia collector so no doubt he watched all that stuff in some way or another. The REASON killing the SNAKE is a constant symbol.

I still think the posture in the movie is a japanese Iaido posture for a guard, but I can't deny the conection here:



The last image, the Übermensch holding up his sword, is pretty close to this - just compare the left arm -:





Very interesting.

His artwork isnt bad, however its very derivative imitation of Ancient and Renaissance artwork, as nazi Germany was copying the Roman Empire and Fascist Italy. Some of his pieces are very pulpy, like this one below:

The Dying Hero



A little battle of the moundish, no?

A very interesting page dedicated to the Symbolism of the Wheel:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit9/unit9.html


As a true historical "Wheel of Pain" I founded this:



<BLOCKQUOTE>...a sort of huge screaming puppet writhing in rivulets of blood, a puppet with four tentacles, like a sea monster, of raw, slimy and shapeless flesh mixed up with splinters of smashed bones.</BLOCKQUOTE>

But that wasn't the end of it. Limbs were woven around the spokes and the wheel was hoisted up so birds could peck away. Death was usually slow in coming.

St. Catherine of Alexandria (to whom Joan of Arc prayed) died this way. So did lots of other folks. But breaking a person with the wheel was just one barbaric method of extracting confessions. Another device was the "Judas Cradle."

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I founded something really interesting that could bring more light into John Milius' and the rest of the unconcious of the artists involved in CTB.

I'm not saying that these guys are (or were) neonazis. I hope nobody blame for that thing.

One thing that is real is that the education of some of the main makers of the movie was heavily influenced by fascism. Take the case of John Milius, and as later I will talk about, also Arnold Schwarzenegger.

As I said before in previous posts, this kind of works are not oriented to point the finger in nobody or accuse anybody. These are facts and the relation with the nazi symbolism and art can't be more evident.

And in any case, as Cromulus said once, if you can blame CTB being a fascist propaganda movie, then you should do the same with Star Wars. The use of ANY kind of symbols in ART is free and nobody can censure that. If there is a "hidden message" in the movies we watch then is the personal work of each one to be mature enough to identify what they are eating. This work is only purely study.

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Apparently, the image of Moloch has been used as a symbol of antisemitic propaganda. Take this example written by some clever dude :

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:fRczk_oEsAYJ:www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2520Religions/Judaism/satanic.htm+moloch+jews&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2


I strongly think that there is some connection here with the identification of the cult of Doom as a Semitic evil cult -supposed enemy of christianism- and also extended with the EEUU "WAR ON DRUGS" propaganda, as somehow they are both connected as you can watch below. Don't forget the Cult's follwers are described as hippy "drug users" who go into orgies, murder and cannibalism. These are the ideas that the right government allways used as propaganda against LSD or MARIHUANA consumers.







As I said once, I think, it's silly to reduce hippism to a "Cult of Death", making "hippy" equal to a nihilistic yonkie who only desires to die. But it's the culture of the "War on Drugs", in my humble opinion just another way of manipulation for the masses. "Don't take drugs, children".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg_IgEo_vIU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDmVlNZJK2A


Also I find interesting the contradictions that are in the Milius' movie symbolism. As Conan and Subotai, the main heroes who Milius would feel related to, consume drugs and take a joyful trip with black lotus like a couple of teenagers. Makes me imagine about John Milius young days in the cinema school with his friendmates Spielberg and Lucas. I'm sure they were closer to the hippy movement and style of life than they would admit. Also, Oliver Stone was heavily into the hippy movement and culture, including drug consume and Jim Morrison's style of life. Plus Schwarzenegger widely admited being a joint smoker when young.

The fact is Milius is using fascist symbolism to define the "bad guys" but in the end the Evil is not evil because they do what they do...

¿They are murderers? Good guys are also.

¿They use drugs? Good guys do also.

¿They enjoy orgies? Good guys would, also.


Now Milius turns the bad guys into liars and cowards, meanwhile the heroes are honest and brave -meanwhile Doom uses an army to fight against a town, the heroes go to the fight they 3 alone, trusting only in themselves-.


So, I think there is an use of anti-semitic and fascist symbolism in the film more for sthethical reasons than to make it a true fascist propaganda movie. It's a complex and mixed product, as maybe we can also call the same John Milus, the Zen-Fascist .




"The classical sources attribute frequent holocausts of children to the Carthaginians in order to emphasize the harsh and cruel nature of these people and their Phoenician forefathers. 'The Phoenicians, and more especially the Carthaginians, when they want some important project to succeed, promise to sacrifice a child to Cronos if their wish is fulfilled'. Clitarch and Diodorus also tell us that the sacrifice took place in front of a bronze statue of the god, with arms outstretched over a blazing hearth; the child slid down over the arms and fell. It seems that the victims were covered with a grinning mask and that is why, according to Clitarch, they died laughing and hence the term 'sardonic' (Sardinian) for a sarcastic smile.
More on the purported Phoenician practice of Moloch. Did it really happen or was it Graeco-Roman propaganda, a kind of predecessor of the antisemitic blood libel? "

1920s era Nazi propaganda poster proclaiming -Tod der Lüge- ("Death of the Lie"). Is interesting how the Serpent is related to the LIE, as Thulsa Doom is essentially a Liar. Also is a liar the christian DEVIL, so associated with the snakes. A more detailed pic of the sculpture by Breker. (Called "BATTLE AGAINST SERPENTS", 1940). Also by Arno Breker, a sculpture of "ST GEORGE" slaying the Dragon -that is, the "LIARS", the enemies of the führer-. The use of the SERPENT or the Dragon as a symbol of the evil is not only related to nazi images. Here we find the oppossite, as the SERPENT is identified with the nazis. "St George is the mascot of Moscow, and he turns up all over the place here. This pic is from the World War 2 memorial, and the dragon in this case is covered in Nazi symbolism".

We have a very old VIKING myth of SIGFRIED (or SIGURD), who killed the serpent FAFNIR.

























He needed a special weapon to kill the serpent, so a special sword was made for him.











Jormungand, the Midgard Serpent - Brooch, 7th century AD





It's not hard to see CONAN as a modern version of SIGFRID:








Finally, I founded this very good page about the origins of the CULT OF THE SERPENT:

http://www.daimonas.com/pages/snake-worship.html

In there you can find this:




In this Mycenaean gem the goddess who controls the moon, which is represented by the double-axe, controls the serpents of the sky.
It dates to c.1500BC.

The pole of the double-axe represents the "pole" from earth to the polar axis: the "trunk" of the world tree. The forms of the twin double-headed snake, and the central double-axe take the form of the later Greek trident, symbol of Zeus' thunder-weapon.

Note: The 2 crescent moons form outlines which form the complete circle of the full-moon, symbolising the Indo-European division of the phases of the moon into 3: 3x3x3. It should be noted that the "Semitic" tradition divided the phases of the moon into 4x7.


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Another image of SIGFRIED:

Use of the Eagle in Western European Heraldry

Charles the Great, (Charlemagne in French or Karl Der Große in German, or Carolus Magnus in Latin), was a Frankish ruler and the first Holy Roman Emperor from AD 800 - 814, in days when no 'France' or 'Germany' existed. He used the seal of the Eagle.

According to von Volborth the first instance of the use of an eagle as an heraldic charge is the Great Seal of the Margrave Leopold of Austria in 1136. On the seal his figure carries a shield charged with an eagle. Also from about this time is a coin, minted in Maastricht (the Netherlands), dating from between 1172 and 1190 after contacts with the East via the crusades. It shows a single-headed eagle.



Coin from between 1172 and 1192, with the oldest known use of the eagle.

From the reign of Frederick Barbarossa in 1155 the eagle became a symbol of the Holy Roman Empire in its one-headed state. The eagle was clearly derived from the Roman eagle and continues to be important in the heraldry of those areas once within the Holy Roman Empire. Within Germany the placement of one’s arms in front of an eagle was indicative of princely rank under the Holy Roman Empire.


An unnoficial Atlantean weapon featuring Eagles.

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More eagle symbol in the movie -(from the Wheel of Pain)		Price: document.write(getProductPrice("$","\,",2,".",false, true, 2396,"inc No Tax within Australia","inc No Tax within Australia","International Orders",1,true)); $84.50 document.write(getPriceInfo(2396,"inc No Tax within Australia","inc No Tax within Australia","International Orders",1,true));

More nazi eagles:

Translation: "IN THE END AWAITS THE VICTORY".




















Italian fascist art:





King OSRIC:









Karl der Grosse, (Charles the Great) the First German Kaiser.

Besides the physical resemblance with Von Sydow, his symbol was the eagle. I think we have a pretty clear inspiration here for the character.



























King Osric is described as being an excellent rider, in his youth.







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More fascist symbolism relations:

Here we offer a wonderful fantasy Coin: "The coin that never was". Minted in Italy after World War II for those who still longed for the "old days".

The reverse shows the Fascist symbol - bundle of rods surrounding an AXE from which sprouts a LION's head. The leonine image refers to one of Mussolini's most famous sayings:

E' Meglio Vivere un Giorno da Leone che Cent'Anni da Pecora

(It is Better to Live One Day as a Lion than a Hundred Years as Sheep)

This relief from the Temple of Agrippa :



Vulcan and the Cyclops(riddle of steel with titans and giants) :

Quote :

I can say that there's a real Zamora, its located in Spain and Zingaro in Italian means, Gypsy.

In spanish, gypsi is said "gitano", that comes from "egiptano" because in the XV century it was believed that gypsis came from Egipt. Today, some gypsis still believe they are descendants from the pharaons. The first tribes of gypsis that came from East Europe to Spain fantasized about their origins, giving to themselves a fantastic and mythic procedence as a protection against a population where they were a minority.

They are also called ROM or ROMANIES.





The most probable historical origin of the gypsis is the India, in the Punjab region. They abandoned they India around 1000 AC.

They traveled through Afganistan, Iran, Armenia and Turquia.






ZINGARIANS:

The word comes from the Greek Ατσίγγανος (it means UNTOUCHABLE). In spanish is also spelled CÍNGARO or ZÍNGARO as in italian. It is allways a relative to the gypsi culture.


The most common apreciation of Spain out of the country is probably the "flamenco", that is the gypsi music, that developed in the south of Spain -Andalucía-. It's the main reason everybody associates Spain with gypsis. But that music started in the 19th century so it's very umprobable that the habitants of the hyborian Zíngara could play guitars and sing like Camarón de La Isla after their fights with iron weapons...

Also, gypsis didn't arrive to Spain till the XV century so again I wonder what was 2GunBob thinking when he wrote that ideas. ... Iron Age gypsis??? ... Cool. Whatever.


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The real ZAMORA is a province of SPAIN and the capital is a city, also called ZAMORA.

The province is very characteristic for its Medieval Romanic art.



The origin of the city could probably celtic, more concrete CELTIBERIAN -(the first known historical habitants of the peninsule, as I exposed in some old pages of this post)-.

The tribe had the name of VACCEOS. It was the 3th century.





The Vacceos made stone idols of BULLS. Apparently that animal was their main symbol.





The bull still today is a strong symbol of male strenght and fecundity. This is the infamous "Bull of Osborne", propaganda of a spanish liquor. In the highways, publicity was prohibited some years ago in the country, but these bull silouettes were so assimilated in the collective unconciousness that were the only legal publicity that still perdured.



There isn't really any reference to the BULL CULT in the movie, but these:


Apparently the Wolf-Witch shared this Iron-Age cult of the BULL, as we can see in this fetiche she had in her warm loving hut. Of course she worshipped male strenght... to eat it. Damn bitch!





Also in this unused concept art we discover the cimmerians also used the bulls. It doesn't mean they worshipped them, but there is a connection between cimmerians and celts, also celtiberian.




And of course, these vanir bulls are really true SPANISH BULLS. (Castrated, for the use as beasts of burden. So they are called "BUEYES").



These are non castrated spanish bulls -no wonder why they worshipped them-:







This scene in the tavern of Zamora -(Milius' movie)- shows that the bull and cow meat is common used.




The VACCEOS of ZAMORA also whorsipped the PIG. The celts worshipped the Wild Boar, whom the pig is the direct descendant.





The spanish pigs (CERDO IBÉRICO) are descendants from an african wild boar, the "Sus Mediterraneus".

In the movie there are pigs in the tavern, (again obviously spanish porks):



The porks in the tavern of Zamora -(milius' movie)- are for sure used for meat, and probably to make Jamón. This is the "JAMÓN IBERICO", food that has its roots in the Iron Age celtic tribes of Spain.







Also, the ROMANS invaded the celtic zone of ZAMORA and gave to it the name of "Occelum Durii" (Eyes of the Duero River).

Roman bridged over the DUERO river.



The romans took ZAMORA at the same time Viriato was fighting against the conquerors in another place of Spain, not too far from Zamora itself. (Viriato was a celtic rebel leader, some kind of spanish Bran Mak Morn).

That statue of Viriato is placed in ZAMORA.




Later in the 6th century, the german barbarians arrived and kicked the roman asses, so in visigoth times the city took the name of "SEMURE". After that the arabs gave it the names of "AZEMUR" or "SEMURAH". So the actual name of Zamora could have a germanic or arab origin.

The city was reconquisted by the christians, in the 9th century. The king of Asturias (north of Spain) ALFONSO III who was born in Zamora and loved the city, made of it a giant fortress so it would not be invaded again.






The king of Castilla -(most important kingdom in medieval Spain)- FERNANDO I, called Zamora "The great stronghold".



He rebuilded it, reforced it and gave it to his daughter, "DOÑA URRACA". She became the RULER of ZAMORA.

Notice the lion standards.

More images of the real ZAMORA -(Spain)-

































SEMANA SANTA ("Holy Week") processions in ZAMORA.
















I wonder if Milius was not influenced by these so common spanish religious shows, to film the last scene of the "Orphans of Doom". It's very probable he, or his team, watched one of these in SEGOVIA, AVILA or CUENCA.